WORST MOVE IN EUCHRE - 2nd HAND LOW

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irishwolf
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WORST MOVE IN EUCHRE - 2nd HAND LOW

Post by irishwolf » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:01 pm

Of all the dumb plays in euchre, I think this one tops them all!

SITUATION: 2nd seat orders the dealer, (assists) his partner. Lets say KH, hearts is trump. Eldest leads 10S to the first trick. 2nd seat trumps with the QH and his partner plays the AS. Now 2nd seat leads a singleton10C which is the only club he has. It just occurred to me as the dealer, playing on line. I did not know the player.

To me this ranks in the top three worst errors of Euchre. This situation Begs for 2nd to play 2ND HAND LOW, create a Void and trust the trick to your partner as your partner will either win the trick with a higher card or can trump it. Works well even if 2nd seat has a weak hand. Even if 3rd seat wins the trick, he has to lead back to the hand with the Strength as well as the dealer. There is no better place to get your partner in the action than this situation. After all, this is a Partnership game.

But don't do it if you order the Jack.

Irishwolf



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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:38 am

All too many people think you need to take every trick possible. I played a game a while back where my partner called. My only trump was the right. I was void on the 1st lead so I played a junk card. When my partner realized i had the right they wanted to know why I didn't trump and asked if I knew how to play.

Do you think I should send them this link?

https://ohioeuchre.com/E_DuckingATrick.php

RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am

I can't tell you how many times my partner trumped a trick when I was holding the Ace. If they'd have trusted it to me, we'd have made march. Most people don't seem to realize that euchre is a team game. If they didn't want or need their partner's help, then why not just go alone?

I usually won't trump if my partner has last play unless the lead is an ace or I know that my partner can't take the trick (ie they're void in trump). The only other exception I can think of is if I'm holding something where I can run all the remaining tricks if I have control. For instance, I'm holding something like this

(Card_J-D) (Card_J-H) (Card_K-H) (Card_A-C)

Where hearts is trump.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:03 pm

I agree always trump an ace. I will also add if I only have 9 & 10 or three small trumps, I will trump to avoid my partner trumping with his big trump.

"...usually won't trump if my partner has last play unless the lead is an ace."

RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:51 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:03 pm
I agree always trump an ace. I will also add if I only have 9 & 10 or three small trumps, I will trump to avoid my partner trumping with his big trump.

"...usually won't trump if my partner has last play unless the lead is an ace."
I didn't think of that, but it's a good idea. If you can take it with a small trump then lead back another small trump, it puts your partner in a position to control the table.

jblowery
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Post by jblowery » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:12 am

I agree that you shouldn't trump with the right but if you only have one low trump wouldn't it be good to just play it? 50% chance your partner can take it (if the lead isn't an ace) but 50% chance they can't. Probably < 50% if the lead is a King because Ace could be buried. If you can get rid of a low card and create a void then that isn't so bad, right?

I think if you have 2 trumps then you would generally hold them on 2nd hand but if you just have one low trump that is probably your only chance to make it earn a point.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:56 am

Two different situations, read carefully: You missed the situation which is CRITICAL to 2nd hand low - 2nd seat assisted.

What you describe is when the dealer makes trump. Which is totally different in that you have just one trump. Especially, if that 'one' trump is the Left or the Ace - you Must trump. And in general, holding one trump, if in doubt, get your trick. When your partner makes trump on 1st round, your job is to win one trick, then get out of the way. Too many players hold that one trump with no off suit ace(s), and actually end up obstructing their partner. I am incline to say, NEVER play 2nd hand low with one trump. That is abusing the concept of 2nd hand low. Let me give you and example that you hold one little trump the 10. 2nd seat now trusted the trick but 3ed seat had the ace and the dealer had to follow suit. Now 3rd leads the same suit - the Dealer is now in a Squeeze as eldest sits behind the dealer and you little ole 10 of trump is no use at all. You just sit your partner up for a Euchre.

Even if 2nd seat has two trumps and the dealer made trump, I recommend Trump High and lead your partner low. If Eldest is in the habit of leading from three, many times, a low trump gets over trumped, sitting up trouble for your partner. Sometimes you might have trumped a trick the dealer had the Ace, but he might also have ace doubleton and can play low. Don't try and OUT think the cards.

Irishwolf

SITUATION: 2nd seat orders the dealer, (assists) his partner. Lets say KH, hearts is trump. Eldest leads 10S to the first trick. 2nd seat trumps with the QH and his partner plays the AS. Now 2nd seat leads a singleton10C which is the only club he has. It just occurred to me as the dealer, playing on line. I did not know the player...

P.S. The off suit ace buried is about 20% in the Stock not 50%.

jblowery
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Post by jblowery » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:57 am

What I was saying is that if the King is led, there is <50% chance that your partner will have the Ace and take the trick without trumping. It could be in the 3rd hand, 4th hand, or buried.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:58 pm

It agree <50% dealer has the Ace when the King is led. Who knows eldest might have the Ace as well, and led the King so 2nd seat does not trump. But don't overlook that the dealer may have created a void to that suit as well.

Thus, the dealer has MORE than a 50% chance to win the trick with an ace or can trump. Can't give an exact number (too many variables - because 2nd seat was void so it increases the chance he has the suit led. And you don't know if he has two or three trumps when he made trump.) He has to have one or both of those two suits 2nd seat did not have.

patiencepays
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Post by patiencepays » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:58 am

RedDuke wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am
I can't tell you how many times my partner trumped a trick when I was holding the Ace. If they'd have trusted it to me, we'd have made march. Most people don't seem to realize that euchre is a team game. If they didn't want or need their partner's help, then why not just go alone?

I usually won't trump if my partner has last play unless the lead is an ace or I know that my partner can't take the trick (ie they're void in trump). The only other exception I can think of is if I'm holding something where I can run all the remaining tricks if I have control. For instance, I'm holding something like this

(Card_J-D) (Card_J-H) (Card_K-H) (Card_A-C)

Where hearts is trump.
I'm puzzled. Where is the fifth card in your sample hand? And, you surely, ordering up from 2nd seat with that hand , would have played it alone? Hence, no second hand low thoughts would even be entering the picture.

RedDuke
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:19 pm

patiencepays wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:58 am
RedDuke wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am
I can't tell you how many times my partner trumped a trick when I was holding the Ace. If they'd have trusted it to me, we'd have made march. Most people don't seem to realize that euchre is a team game. If they didn't want or need their partner's help, then why not just go alone?

I usually won't trump if my partner has last play unless the lead is an ace or I know that my partner can't take the trick (ie they're void in trump). The only other exception I can think of is if I'm holding something where I can run all the remaining tricks if I have control. For instance, I'm holding something like this

(Card_J-D) (Card_J-H) (Card_K-H) (Card_A-C)

Where hearts is trump.
I'm puzzled. Where is the fifth card in your sample hand? And, you surely, ordering up from 2nd seat with that hand , would have played it alone? Hence, no second hand low thoughts would even be entering the picture.
There's four cards there because I followed suit or threw off on the first hand. That's what's in my hand after the first trick was taken by my partner (or enemy).

I would go alone with the hand shown there as long as the fifth card was a club. If it was something like the (Card_9-S), I might or might not go alone depending on the score. In addition, remember that I didn't call here. This was really meant as an example of a hand that you're guaranteed to take all of the remaining tricks if you have control.

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