Rt + 1 when to order

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jblowery
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Rt + 1 when to order

Post by jblowery » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:00 am

Seems like this happens a lot. Let's say I have this hand and my opponent is the dealer and a (Card_Q-S) is turned up.

I have

(Card_J-S) (Card_K-S) (and then 3 other cards)

When would you order him to pick up. Depending on seat position (1st or 3rd) and what else you have in hand. I k ow you wouldn't order from 1st if you are really strong in something else.



irishwolf
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:54 am

This is not a strong enough hand to order the dealer your opponent, not even if you had two off suit aces. Unless your score is 9 to 6 your favor and your partner at seat one passed, knowing he should order without a sure stopper.

It is an 'assist' hand from seat 2 to order.

Irish

RedDuke
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:07 pm

jblowery wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:00 am
Seems like this happens a lot. Let's say I have this hand and my opponent is the dealer and a (Card_Q-S) is turned up.

I have

(Card_J-S) (Card_K-S) (and then 3 other cards)

When would you order him to pick up. Depending on seat position (1st or 3rd) and what else you have in hand. I k ow you wouldn't order from 1st if you are really strong in something else.
Don't order it from first unless you've got something killer and no strength in any other suit.

For example, say you're in first holding:

(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-H) (Card_9-C)

Don't order up. Sure, you've probably got a point (and you've got both bowers), but in this case it's better to pass in first seat. If the opponents pick it up, you'll probably be able to euchre them. If they don't pick up, you can easily just make clubs trump.

In second seat, the choice is tougher. You generally don't want to order the right into your partner's hand unless you've got 3 trumps or a really timid partner. If you're holding the right+1 and something decent in an offsuit (say an Ace), you'd probably want to order. The odds that you'll step on your partner's lone attempt aren't that great in that instance.

In third seat, it gets really challenging. Your hand by itself isn't strong enough to order up. I'd only do it as a donation if your partner doesn't know that he has to donate if he doesn't have a stopper. If he does know that, then he's got a sure trick in his hand. In that case, your right is another guaranteed trick and if you've got an offsuit Ace or two, it might be worth trying.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:58 am

RedDuke wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:07 pm
Don't order it from first unless you've got something killer and no strength in any other suit.
Sometimes you have to order from first when you're marginal becuz you have no place to go in the 2nd round.

E.G. Score is 0-0, upcard is the (Card_Q-S)

You have (Card_K-S) (Card_10-S) (Card_9-S) (Card_10-D) (Card_9-H)

This is a spot where you gotta grit you teeth and call spades. If you pass and it gets passed around now you're forced to pass in the 2nd round with a hand that blocks nothing exposing your team big time. You can't let that happen. Make the marginal first round call with your three trump no bower hand instead. Lead trump and hope for the best.


RedDuke wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:07 pm
For example, say you're in first holding:

(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-H) (Card_9-C)

Don't order up. Sure, you've probably got a point (and you've got both bowers), but in this case it's better to pass in first seat. If the opponents pick it up, you'll probably be able to euchre them. If they don't pick up, you can easily just make clubs trump.
I'd go alone in clubs with that holding.
RedDuke wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:07 pm
In second seat, the choice is tougher. You generally don't want to order the right into your partner's hand unless you've got 3 trumps or a really timid partner. If you're holding the right+1 and something decent in an offsuit (say an Ace), you'd probably want to order. The odds that you'll step on your partner's lone attempt aren't that great in that instance.
At this point you already know what I'm gonna say, but I'll never stop repeating it. With right + 1 and nothing else from the 2 seat (assuming you don't have all suits blocked) it is imperative that one orders their partner up.

1) This hand makes a point very often. Even if you're 4 suited, your partner always has a void which means your team always has a void. Give your partner every chance to take a trick.

2) If you pass, you set your partner up to pass many helping hands that would've been enough to scratch a point. Had he seen your hand he wouldn't pass those helper hands. Don't set your partner up to make this kind of technical mistake.

3) By ordering up with this hand you prevent seat 1 from ever getting a 2nd round loner.

Also, if you have Left + 1 and an offsuit Ace and don't block the other two suits then it again is imperative to order your partner up for the same reasons as above.

And finally, any time your team has 8 or 9 points and you guys have a decent lead you now need to call even looser in the 2 seat.

E.G. say your team is up 8-2 and the the dealer upcard is the (Card_9-S)

You have: (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_A-D) (Card_9-D) (Card_Q-H)

You should order your partner up. This is basically like a semi-donate from the 2 seat. The idea is:

1) You don't have to worry about blocking your partner's loner at 8 or 9 points.

2) If your partner was gonna call anyways then your call was basically irrelevant.

3) You block nothing. If your partner passes, your team is now very vulnerable to a 2nd Rd, 1 seat loner given your holding. Don't let this happen when you got a nice lead.

4) There are still hands in your partner's passing range that can compliment your hand enough to get a point. Sometimes it may take a key card being buried. Whatever the case, you'll get lucky more than you think, and if you go set so what. That's what a nice lead is for. And anyways, it was a defensive call that you must make for your team. No loner comebacks from the 1 seat.

What are the kind of hands to make these 2 seat defensive calls with when your team has a nice lead with 8 or 9 points? Think about all the 2 seat hands that are "almost" a call. Basically any 2 trump and an off ace type hands or just the Left + 1 and no aces, or just the Right + an off ace. These hands now become a call when you don't block other suits.

And it goes without saying, if the score is 9-9, all those "almost" hands should be ordered up too.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:04 am

irishwolf wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:54 am
This is not a strong enough hand to order the dealer your opponent, not even if you had two off suit aces. Unless your score is 9 to 6 your favor and your partner at seat one passed, knowing he should order without a sure stopper.

It is an 'assist' hand from seat 2 to order.

Irish
Agree with everything above. Although If I have a weak partner that passes in the 2nd round a lot, I'd probably order up from 3rd with

(Card_K-S) (Card_J-S) + two offsuit aces, but I agree that with a strong partner in seat 1, this hand is a pass. Although a hand like that can actually be a decent hail mary loner when down 9-6:

EG: say you have (Card_K-S) (Card_J-S) (Card_A-D) (Card_K-D) (Card_A-H)

And the upcard is a (Card_10-S)

Down 9-6 I'd go alone.

RedDuke
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:03 am

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:04 am
irishwolf wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:54 am
This is not a strong enough hand to order the dealer your opponent, not even if you had two off suit aces. Unless your score is 9 to 6 your favor and your partner at seat one passed, knowing he should order without a sure stopper.

It is an 'assist' hand from seat 2 to order.

Irish
Agree with everything above. Although If I have a weak partner that passes in the 2nd round a lot, I'd probably order up from 3rd with

(Card_K-S) (Card_J-S) + two offsuit aces, but I agree that with a strong partner in seat 1, this hand is a pass. Although a hand like that can actually be a decent hail mary loner when down 9-6:

EG: say you have (Card_K-S) (Card_J-S) (Card_A-D) (Card_K-D) (Card_A-H)

And the upcard is a (Card_10-S)

Down 9-6 I'd go alone.
Like you said though, that's a definite hail mary loner because that hand is going to get euchred a decent bit if you're ordering a trump into the dealer's hand.

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