Should I call dealer up?

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raydog
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:56 pm

Should I call dealer up?

Unread post by raydog » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:35 pm

I am sitting in S1 with (Card_Q-S) (Card_J-S) (Card_Q-D) (Card_K-C) (Card_Q-C) . Turn card is (Card_9-C) .

Do I call dealer up or pass? And what is the logic for the decision?

I came across this hand and made an intuitive choice. Then tested it with my program. I was intrigued by the results, but perhaps the "correct" answer is obvious to the experts.



Tbolt65
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:55 pm

I am going to preface with this. "It depends on how one looks at situation".


With that being said. What is the score? What type of players are we dealing with in seat 2, seat 3 and Seat 4. Of course S1 matters too. Can I go anywhere in the second round? What help may my partner be and how am I going to extract the best way so that my partner can help.


Just at face value. Just looking at the hand as is and with-out knowing any of that. I see no reason to order. I have strong next call with better off suit. Play for the euchre/set and bag and call next.


Tbolt65
Edward


Edit: Just noticed now but didn't noticed when I posted a little bit ago. I was the 5800th post. That's a lot of posts. For the site people, not for me.

irishwolf
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:08 am

Not with the Left would I order the dealer.

IRISH

raydog
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:56 pm

Unread post by raydog » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:40 am

You guys are smatter than I am. I actually passed this when it came up in a game, but I made a note of it and looking at it now I thought I should order dealer up. I ran it through my program, and it said to order dealer up as well. But then I tested it vs. passing, and the latter proved the better move.

The way my program works is it assigns point values to hands based on how strong they are in a certain suit. Then, based on seat position and possible bidding options R2 (but not score), decides to call trump or not. In this case there were enough points to bid in S, and the point value for a next bid were 5.4 less - the algorithm in this case said that if the S points exceeded the next pts by at least 5 I should bid. I re-tested the general case (not just this hand but ANY hand with a solid trump call but a fairly good next call as well, from S1), and discovered that my threshold should be 6 pts, not 5. I have corrected my program.

All this to say that I am continually tweaking my algorithm to make it better, mostly by testing hands posted on this site - thanks!

Tbolt65
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:26 am

raydog wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:40 am
You guys are smatter than I am. I actually passed this when it came up in a game, but I made a note of it and looking at it now I thought I should order dealer up. I ran it through my program, and it said to order dealer up as well. But then I tested it vs. passing, and the latter proved the better move.

The way my program works is it assigns point values to hands based on how strong they are in a certain suit. Then, based on seat position and possible bidding options R2 (but not score), decides to call trump or not. In this case there were enough points to bid in S, and the point value for a next bid were 5.4 less - the algorithm in this case said that if the S points exceeded the next pts by at least 5 I should bid. I re-tested the general case (not just this hand but ANY hand with a solid trump call but a fairly good next call as well, from S1), and discovered that my threshold should be 6 pts, not 5. I have corrected my program.

All this to say that I am continually tweaking my algorithm to make it better, mostly by testing hands posted on this site - thanks!
Keep refining and don't be shy adding on. The more complex situations the program can recognize and or the more information at hand when running the scenarios. Will Gardner more rounded results. Keep at it.


Thanks for the compliment but it's not necessarily us being more smart in the sense of mathematics. All be it that could be said for at least one of us. Playing those type of hands over and over again enough times should allow one to see that it's definitely worth while to pass. Especially if you know your partner(S3) either bags alot or expect you to call next. However lastly calling Hoyle just based on that precedent with out any other factors to consider will show a profit consistently. Hoyle alone is but a building block but with no other experience or information its not a bad default until ones game becomes more well rounded.

Tbolt65
Edward

irishwolf
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:18 pm

Lol, it's all good!

IRISH

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