What to Remember

Ask questions, discuss and debate your strategies, euchre polls and more
Post Reply
pcather
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:36 pm

What to Remember

Unread post by pcather » Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:25 pm

I have learned a lot of information here but I’m having a hard time putting all of it into practice. I realize in order to get better I need to improve my attention to the details. Like remembering what has been played and paying attention to the fact that my partners sloughed off an ace.

I found a way to help me remember what Trump has been played. And usually I can remember who doesn’t have Trump. As for the rest of it, I’ve been looking at memory techniques. The one that seems the best fit for me are memory palaces.

So two questions:

Do any of you use memory palaces to help you in euchre?

What are the most important things to remember?

I’m sure there are some people out there who can remember every trick and who played what. But I think that’s unrealistic for me to set as a goal at this point.

Things that I think are important remember is

What is Trump. LOL
What card was NOT picked up in the first round
Which Trump have been played
Who doesn’t have Trump
what suits have been led
What is the current boss card of each off suit
Who is out of any off suit

Can you add to this list? And which ones do you think are the most important? As I am not sure that can I learn to do all of these at one time.
Last edited by pcather on Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



jspectre
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:04 am

Unread post by jspectre » Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:52 pm

While you do have to memorize some information in a given hand, it shouldn't be too difficult, nor do you need to remember every card played or that could be remaining, or to keep a running tab on possible cards that can be buried. I process the relevant information, and ignore the rest, trying to remember too much could easily cause me to make a mistake.

First, immediately look at/memorize the face up card, if it is ordered up quickly, you could miss your opportunity. Knowing this card is more important when your team are the makers, but it could potentially be just as important to securing a euchre as well. As for what trump is, unless you're playing in person, then the suit that was called and who ordered it, should be readily available.

After trump has been made and the hand begins, pay close attention to the first suit that is led. You want to make a quick tally of these cards in order to determine what is now boss in this suit, only memorize the card remaining, not what has been played. Do the same thing for all new suits that have been led, and keep track of the new boss card, as well as remembering who was void in a suit, if applicable.

Trump is easier, if you're the maker, then you likely have 2-3 trump, and there are only 7 possible trump in play. After a trump lead is made it's likely that only one or two trump are unaccounted for. Again, don't pay attention to trump that has been played, only use that to quickly determine the remaining trump, and then memorize only what remains, in addition to what trump is now boss.

Now, this doesn't mean you will actually need to know this for every hand you name trump, the remaining boss cards in a given suit are only as relevant as what you hold in your hand, and how much you will need to rely on your partner for a trick. Some hands can be played with little thought in terms of memorizing the remaining cards, while others may require such insight to save yourself from being euchred.

However, an expert player must also analyze the hand, and based on factors such as table position, order of cards played, what is in your hand, etc. you may be able to narrow down or rule out who could have potential boss cards, if applicable. It's important to be able to analyze how the potentially remaining boss cards fit into play, not just being aware of what they are. This is what separates an expert from a good player.

pcather
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:36 pm

Unread post by pcather » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:01 pm

Thanks. This is exactly the type of information I was looking for.

irishwolf
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:07 pm

You said, "So two questions:

Do any of you use memory palaces to help you in euchre?

What are the most important things to remember?

I’m sure there are some people out there who can remember every trick and who played what . . ."

I am not sure at what level of skill your are at? Appears intermediate! I have no clue to what level your wish to obtain, just social, good or expert? Each of those levels require different degrees of practice and attention.

Just know if you want to get better, your list and the reply is only the beginning. But that will not get you very far. IMO

Here is my Theory on EXPERTISE in Euchre:

Expert players DO NOT have better memories! So if you have issues with memorizing what you itemized, that is an issue you need to correct.

Memorizing every card, every trick does not win games. So what does?

You have to Hard Code good play in LTM (long-term memory), in what is termed 'chunks' of good play so that it is quickly retrieved. My theory is that the key to understanding mastery in the game of Euchre, lies in the (dedicated practice not improving memory) immediate perceptual processing. It is here that the game is won or loss.

Good play is generated by understanding the statistical nature of the cards and games played against various levels of skilled players for subsequent processing. What is important is perceptual analysis, and that lies an extensive knowledge through years of deliberate practice. All to build your Library (LTM) of "Chunks" of hands to be recalled as needed during play. For expertise is not accomplished by memorizing cards or slow deductive reasoning which is for practice only.

To the expert euchre player decision making is fast, an unconscious perceptual processing for he “sees” the right decision with little effort, without hesitation, about 2 seconds or less. That requires dedicated practice, not casual, haphazard social play.

Experts look at each hand, what SHOULD the EV be considering the Law of Large Numbers, not just that single hand, 5 card tricks. Dedicated Practice is to look at your hand, and see the possibilities (5 card strategy) be it on defense or offense. You experiment, trying different things and retain in LTM what does work.

Remember, the Luck factor in Euchre is about 35% of which you have no control. In the long run, Luck works both ways (not the Gamblers Fallacy)! After you obtain a good working knowledge of how to play, the work on Intuition which is whole different subject which (IMO) is different from Expert Play!

Seldom is a hand worthless to the Master. And just know, good leads beats good cards!

But here is one TIP you should know and remember. Its not just theory, it's FACT: I call this my 90 - 10 Rule of Euchre and I have statistical data to back it up. The 90 - 10 Rule of Euchre is that 90% of all tricks won in Euchre comes from the 10 Significant Cards. The 10 Significant Cards are the 7 trumps and the 3 Ace suit lay cards. That is basically what you need to memorize, and it it's fluid with each hand. Wipe the slate clean each hand. So for STM (short term memory) you can memorize and retain, 5 to 7 things. Unless you are super human! So you look at your hand, how many of those 10 cards do you have? Of course, some or more significant than others, but you only have to know what has been played (Known + what in your hand), and what remains to be played of those Unknown!

So you have some work to do, depending on where you want to be! IMO :oops:

IRISHWOLF

P.S. So to me Expert players do NOT have better Memories or Bigger Brains, or higher IQs - THEY HAVE BIGGER LIBRARIES to draw from.

Tbolt65
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:07 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:07 pm
You said, "So two questions:

Do any of you use memory palaces to help you in euchre?

What are the most important things to remember?

I’m sure there are some people out there who can remember every trick and who played what . . ."

I am not sure at what level of skill your are at? Appears intermediate! I have no clue to what level your wish to obtain, just social, good or expert? Each of those levels require different degrees of practice and attention.

Just know if you want to get better, your list and the reply is only the beginning. But that will not get you very far. IMO

Here is my Theory on EXPERTISE in Euchre:

Expert players DO NOT have better memories! So if you have issues with memorizing what you itemized, that is an issue you need to correct.

Memorizing every card, every trick does not win games. So what does?

You have to Hard Code good play in LTM (long-term memory), in what is termed 'chunks' of good play so that it is quickly retrieved. My theory is that the key to understanding mastery in the game of Euchre, lies in the (dedicated practice not improving memory) immediate perceptual processing. It is here that the game is won or loss.

Good play is generated by understanding the statistical nature of the cards and games played against various levels of skilled players for subsequent processing. What is important is perceptual analysis, and that lies an extensive knowledge through years of deliberate practice. All to build your Library (LTM) of "Chunks" of hands to be recalled as needed during play. For expertise is not accomplished by memorizing cards or slow deductive reasoning which is for practice only.

To the expert euchre player decision making is fast, an unconscious perceptual processing for he “sees” the right decision with little effort, without hesitation, about 2 seconds or less. That requires dedicated practice, not casual, haphazard social play.

Experts look at each hand, what SHOULD the EV be considering the Law of Large Numbers, not just that single hand, 5 card tricks. Dedicated Practice is to look at your hand, and see the possibilities (5 card strategy) be it on defense or offense. You experiment, trying different things and retain in LTM what does work.

Remember, the Luck factor in Euchre is about 35% of which you have no control. In the long run, Luck works both ways (not the Gamblers Fallacy)! After you obtain a good working knowledge of how to play, the work on Intuition which is whole different subject which (IMO) is different from Expert Play!

Seldom is a hand worthless to the Master. And just know, good leads beats good cards!

But here is one TIP you should know and remember. Its not just theory, it's FACT: I call this my 90 - 10 Rule of Euchre and I have statistical data to back it up. The 90 - 10 Rule of Euchre is that 90% of all tricks won in Euchre comes from the 10 Significant Cards. The 10 Significant Cards are the 7 trumps and the 3 Ace suit lay cards. That is basically what you need to memorize, and it it's fluid with each hand. Wipe the slate clean each hand. So for STM (short term memory) you can memorize and retain, 5 to 7 things. Unless you are super human! So you look at your hand, how many of those 10 cards do you have? Of course, some or more significant than others, but you only have to know what has been played (Known + what in your hand), and what remains to be played of those Unknown!

So you have some work to do, depending on where you want to be! IMO :oops:

IRISHWOLF

P.S. So to me Expert players do NOT have better Memories or Bigger Brains, or higher IQs - THEY HAVE BIGGER LIBRARIES to draw from.

Well said, Irishwolf.


Tbolt65
Edward

Post Reply