
https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D
Yes, if W was a good player, then they would know that a non-trump lead on a 1st seat call is most likely a donation, and a low off suit lead is an even greater indication of that. However, W is simply not a good player, and does not understand these types of concepts.Dlan wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:26 pm I agree that west most likely didn’t realize east was blocking. But he should have. The best hand east could have would be 9,10, Q. Another clue would have been the low club lead. Would anyone order the right with such a weak holding? What could be going on here? Why did my partner call? As a partner, these are the questions one may want to consider during play.
It is the job of a partner to help the maker. No one that names trump wants the right out against them. A trump lead would either pulled the right or possibly taken a trick should the dealer be able to duck. Here the partner is only playing his hand with little regard for the bidder.
Beyond that, there are 12 slots that the Ac could be in. Leading the Kc while holding back the 9 makes no sense. Better to lead the 9 in hopes of setting up the king as the boss spade.
Euchre must be played as a partner's game. Once trump is named, it's up to the partner to help in any way they can. That goes no matter who called.
It makes perfect sense, I'm saying that W is just inexperienced, it isn't a question of whether he's not trying to help his partner, he simply doesn't know how to do that, and I have yet to see that be refuted. Now, I simply disagree with your assessment that leading a tripleton club (and the low suit rather than the connected suit, at that) is a great lead if the dealer only has the JH. An ace lead (from a singleton/doubleton) is clearly the best in the scenario that the dealer may only have the right bower, and I would wager that leading the ace here will give your team more chances to score a point in the event that your partner is sitting on hearts.irishwolf wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:27 pm jspectre, you make no sense stating: "You also missed the point I was making. It's not a question of whether playing off on the diamond is a good play, the point is that W allowed his partner to take a trick, he isn't just trying to do it all himself, which contradicts the statement made in the opening post..."
If S1 leads his AS or a club, a point results by S1/S3. A club was led, and played incorrectly by S3. Except that it was a great lead if the Dealer only has the JH so S3 can force the JH and to over trump S2.
Dumb luck or good lead W/E should have made a point.
Once S1 leads a low club, it does not matter that S3 knows or does not know his partner has Donated. S3 has a great chance to make a point. And he played like a bozo clown.
When donating you always have to be aware that your partner has chance, about 20%, to actually make a point. So if S3 plays his hand correctly it now becomes in this hand irrelevant as S1 only has to follow suit after the first lead. He led 10C, it does not matter what card he led as S2 has the AC and S3 has a void to trump. Then game is on to make a point.
Overall, great concept about playing as a Partnership, but a poor example to discuss what a Partnership is all about, IMO.
IRISH
as a side note; There are those that believe an Ace has a better chance of walking after a round of trump has been pulled.jspectre wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:53 pm “W is just inexperienced, it isn't a question of whether he's not trying to help his partner, he simply doesn't know how to do that.”
I can't help but feel like there's still a contradiction there, but I digress. As for the second point, that should really only apply to aces that are very likely to be trumped, and may allow the opponents to play off as well. Even if an ace lead gets trumped, that's still a trump that has been used up, and in most situations you will be able to stop a march. It's also a different story when you name trump, even if it's a donation, you're still trying to score a point, and the best way to do that simply has to be leading a doubleton green ace over a green tripleton.Dlan wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:35 pm Why yes, this is the point of the post and just maybe it will help others to avoid this type of play
as a side note; There are those that believe an Ace has a better chance of walking after a round of trump has been pulled.jspectre wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:53 pm “W is just inexperienced, it isn't a question of whether he's not trying to help his partner, he simply doesn't know how to do that.”
I agree with you that leading the Ace is the best lead for S1. S1 needs to think about what's best for his team in this spot. When S1 leads the off ace it will either walk for a trick or force out enemy trump. Both are good results for his team. And those times S3 has a decent trump hand that may score a point, clearly an Ace lead is what's best for him as that lead allows S3 to discard garbage and almost always prevents him from being overtrumped and thus wasting a trump on the first lead. An Ace lead also signals to S1's partner that he is donating as he would never lead an off ace in that spot on a legit call. This information can also help S3 play his hand.jspectre wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:53 pm Now, I simply disagree with your assessment that leading a tripleton club (and the low suit rather than the connected suit, at that) is a great lead if the dealer only has the JH. An ace lead (from a singleton/doubleton) is clearly the best in the scenario that the dealer may only have the right bower, and I would wager that leading the ace here will give your team more chances to score a point in the event that your partner is sitting on hearts.
You're welcome to put all the blame on W, and say that if only they played well, then it didn't matter what suit E led, but when playing with less inexperienced players it's the job of the more experienced player to make things as easy for their partner as humanly possible, and by making a questionable lead, if not an outright mistake, with a low club, the maker has now placed the less inexperienced player into a position where they can lose a winning hand, and some measure of fault must be attributed to the maker in this scenario. I would only have myself to blame if this club lead hurts my team, and the ace lead would have made the hand play out much simpler.
Now, if you simply don't care about the reality of playing with a weaker partner, feel free to disregard this.