spell/technical corrections

Your thoughts about OhioEuchre. How can we improve? Let us know
Post Reply
skitz
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:08 am

spell/technical corrections

Post by skitz » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:32 am

Reading through I had to register to point out errors.

http://ohioeuchre.com/L-Learn_To_Play_Euchre_Lesson-1_Introduction.php

"leading through the bidder and many more"

Unless I am totally mistaken on a new (weird) term, its "leading to the bidder".

http://ohioeuchre.com/E_ThreeTrumpTwoSuited-part-2.php

"What we're trying to do is give our ace of hearts the best chance of surviving."

Should be "ace of diamonds"

I will post anymore I find, after reading the rest



User avatar
Dlan
Site Admin
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:08 pm

Post by Dlan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:53 am

I’d like to say thank you for your post.

Suggestions for corrections are always welcome.

I have edited those pages to correct my error and make the text easier to understand.
If your dreams don’t scare you then they're not big enough

irishwolf
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:50 pm

"Leading through" is the proper term when 2nd seat orders and Eldest leads a trump card. It is not new nor is it weird to say leading through and best describes the ploy. Never heard of leading to the bidder but can lead to the 'maker' of trump.

Since we are being technical, picky, in standard Euchre, you do not bid. Bid is an attempt to achieve something, like at an auction suggesting that someone else can top or over bid you. Not in Euchre, you announce, declare or make trump. No one can out bid you.

"leading through the bidder and many more"

Unless I am totally mistaken on a new (weird) term, its "leading to the bidder".

irishwolf
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:16 pm

RE: LEADING THROUGH

A very old term in deed:

p117 Meehan’s Euchre Book 1862 Quoting:
It is a rule with many experienced players to
lead through the assisting hand, that is, when
the dealer’s partner assists, . . .

Irishwolf

User avatar
Dlan
Site Admin
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:08 pm

Post by Dlan » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:41 am

Bid ...
I do know that 'bid' is technically incorrect. But old habits were hard to break. Prior to playing euchre, I came from a world where games such as 'set back' and 'pinochle' were common. In those you bid.

Having played euchre for some years now, I was able to adjust. I now use such terms as 'maker' and 'naming trump'.

Pages wrote in the last few years reflect this. Someday I may go back and edit my earlier work.
If your dreams don’t scare you then they're not big enough

irishwolf
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:54 am

Not a problem for me as most players use the word "bid" in standard euchre. Bidding is used in many card games as you have noted.

skitz
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:08 am

Post by skitz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:38 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:50 pm
"Leading through" is the proper term when 2nd seat orders and Eldest leads a trump card. It is not new nor is it weird to say leading through and best describes the ploy. Never heard of leading to the bidder but can lead to the 'maker' of trump.

Since we are being technical, picky, in standard Euchre, you do not bid. Bid is an attempt to achieve something, like at an auction suggesting that someone else can top or over bid you. Not in Euchre, you announce, declare or make trump. No one can out bid you.

"leading through the bidder and many more"

Unless I am totally mistaken on a new (weird) term, its "leading to the bidder".
Ahh, never heard of it before. Thanks. Although trimming down specific "if 2nd makes trump and 1st leads trump on the 1st lead, its called leading through so everywhere we are talking about leading through means 1st leading the 1st trick as trump to 2nd's announcement" language of yester-century, in today's modern mindset should probably be more generalized to make sense from every seat. I mean we are talking about interpreting age old strategy for the modern players. Thats just my opinion though. I will seek out your quote though and read yet another strategy book. Thanks again.

irishwolf
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:01 pm

The term is used by many experienced 'modern' players that play euchre, and in major tournaments as well. Not just yester-century language. You can read the same term in two of the Euchre books on this website. And I am quite sure I can find it in Hoyle books and modern Euchre books too. But I will leave that for you to convince yourself. Besides, it's a ploy, and best describes this particular defensive strategy to use. I use it quite frequently when the situation demands it. What books on euchre have you read - old and knew? Strategies in euchre have not changed much in the last 150 years. Read tips and hints by Meehan, Keller, Foster and Hoyle books.

What other terminology would you suggest?

. . ., never heard of it before. Thanks. Although trimming down specific "if 2nd makes trump and 1st leads trump on the 1st lead, its called leading through so everywhere we are talking about leading through means 1st leading the 1st trick as trump to 2nd's announcement" language of yester-century, in today's modern mindset should probably be more generalized to make sense from every seat. I mean we are talking about interpreting age old strategy for the modern player...

skitz
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:08 am

Post by skitz » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:37 am

"Leading trump to the maker" would technically cover all situations and seats when the strategy calls for it, rather than a specific seat leading to (or through?) a specific seat that made trump. The specifics would be covered within the strategies.

Technically you cannot lead through at all. You can lead to your partner, to your opponents, to yourself or to chance. You cannot lead through your partner, through your opponents, through yourself or through chance.

The definition of through (at least all modern definitions) speak of continuation so first lead would be out in any event.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/through

I understand that it is "known" throughout euchre circles and books but to make a modern strategy for new players, it should be considered as something to avoid imo. Even though it was confusing when I read it, I understood what it meant but that doesn't mean that continuation of usage is necessary to carry on the legacy of euchre.

Anyway, its a small point really and not worth that much attention. I just consider that continuation is not needed.

irishwolf
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:08 pm

Dear Mr. Skitz,

Your suggestion does not do justice to the Ploy ( a cunning plan or action designed to turn a situation to one's own advantage. ) AND DOES NOT cover all situations. Why, because the 'rule of thumb' is Never lead trump on defense. The maker is not the dealer nor is the specifics covered within your NEW terminlogy. It is not a modern strategy.

QUOTING YOU:
"..."Leading trump to the maker" would technically cover all situations and seats when the strategy calls for it, rather than a specific seat leading to (or through?) a specific seat that made trump. The specifics would be covered within the strategies." Obviously you don't play euchre with experienced players or you would already have known this. Had you known the meaning of the term would post would not have read like it did.

You are not going to change the (160 years)Ploy or concept of "leading through". When a player is to your right, he is always leading through you . . . to completion of the trick.

To the definition of "through" - continuing in time toward completion of a process (process is the ploy which is an exception to the Norm and completion is the trick when all have played.)

How does one pass into a room . . . you pass "through" a doorway. In the Ploy, you are leading a trump "through" the dealer's partner. You try the ploy sometime.

It is as simple as that!

Irishwolf

skitz
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:08 am

Post by skitz » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:09 pm

I personally do not think that a new player has to learn 160 years of anything when the ploy can be expressed differently.

Assuming that a player has not used the ploy because of discussion of terminology is erroneous.

Again, unless you are leading the right you are not leading through anything imo. You are leading to your opponents call and, most likely, to their hand. In other words, they will take the trick. Meanwhile, the ploy can work with less than the right giving the opponents the lead. Meaning you lead to their call.

So I started off pointing out a glaring error on the site and the entire thread is bloated over a difference of opinion on a (as stated) minor point. All my time since then has been taken to respond. Maybe I will get to read the rest of the site at sometime and help with any other glaring errors that I see. Possibly help in the area of proof-reading would be called for.

Post Reply