OE061421 R1S4 Order?

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Richardb02
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OE061421 R1S4 Order?

Unread post by Richardb02 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:43 pm




Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:13 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:43 pm
Would your order R1S4?

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D
S4 should pass. Never call marginal when you block all suits.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:03 am

I think it all depends on who is at S1. You could bag on Next. In general though, Block is BS stuff, you will lose points in the long run.

That hand in particular, I would also pass. You have a great bag hand, and just as good helper hand in hearts or diamonds. Can't lose on that call of Pass.

IRISHWOLF

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:43 am

Dealer should pass here. Why? Because what wes and irishwolf both said. When the three of us are in agreement. You should take note of that. Rest assured that passing is the best play here in this situation and at this score.

Tbolt65
Edward

jspectre
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Unread post by jspectre » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:03 am

I would never order with that hand, you block all suits, and can easily get a euchre if 1st seat is forced to call next. As it turns out, they would make a point in next if S3 calls, but that's still better than being euchred. Interestingly enough, if S2 calls diamonds with just KQ, with no voids/aces, it would score a point, but I would be very hesitant to make that call against good players.

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:01 pm

Yes. Got it. Thanks for the expert analysis.

Hand was at least one klick too weak to order. Even if the hand was one klick stronger (R instead of L), the defensive power of the hand should have indicated a pass was more profitable. I missed it in the heat of the game.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:52 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:01 pm
Yes. Got it. Thanks for the expert analysis.

Hand was at least one klick too weak to order. Even if the hand was one klick stronger (R instead of L), the defensive power of the hand should have indicated a pass was more profitable. I missed it in the heat of the game.
Actually, if you change the left to the right. It changes the hand. Now you can actually call and I think passing all be it is still some what viable is now not such a slam dunk. You could still pass but I would heavily favor an order with Right/Ace off Ace and a void.

Tbolt65
Edward

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:23 am

Oh ya, R changes things. Having the R + AS + AC and one void, you now have a hand 2.5 to 2.75. You will make your point around 75 to 80% if played correctly. You have to lead that Right tho. That Right bower is a powerful trump. If they lead to your singleton off suit, now have to lead to your void or AC. If lead the same suit as your singleton, DUCK with your low club. This gets your partner involved. That's a fun hand!

So if you pass, you have Left Ace + 1 and that is 2.o tricks. You would have to have a trick from your partner in next. And in Green you have a help hand, again about 2.0. Not enough to euchre but just Block.

I am for not blocking here, get your point in Spades.

IRISHWOLF

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:02 pm

Thanks T & I. You’ve exposed that I have overvalued the Left & undervalued the Right. I will recalibrate.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:22 am

So Richard, you should always verify the proper play. It does require some work. But with a lot of patience and (hard) work you can proof to yourself the difference between AS S4 has JC AC XC 9D JH vs JS AC XC 9D JH. Set the dealer's hand to the above, now you have six known cards. Dealer (by 1's, of course for closer to a random deal) 18 cards, 5 to each of 3 players and 3 to the Stock. Record each hand on 8 x 11 notebook paper. You will need this, critical stuff. IMO.

Play out the cards, start with 100 deals, played both ways, Making spades trump, vs Passing. Play each seat as you would play it. See the difference between Ordering vs Passing.

Oh but wait a minute, now take the same hands, circle the JS and switch it with the JC and now play out the hands with JS to the dealer. You can also pass but not really necessary, unless you are OCD about it. Do 100, see what you get. You do not have to Believe anyone about what is right or wrong. You can also play around with that 9D, JH or AC to look at other (substituting) combinations that you might wonder about, Ha Ha! In God we trust, All other must Prove their worth! I said that, and you can quote me!

You can also get fancy and do a Statistical test, called a Pair Comparison and you don't need but do it in sets of 10 or 15, the means of those hands. It will tell you statistical significance, if you are interested.

IRISHWOLF

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