Double Lead Through On The Maker

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RedDuke
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Double Lead Through On The Maker

Unread post by RedDuke » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:50 pm

Leading the same suit twice against the maker can be very strong since it gives your partner a chance to trump for a euchre shot. We see this here.

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https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D



jspectre
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:04 am

Unread post by jspectre » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:08 pm

I'm extremely bothered that the maker throws off a diamond he's 2 suited in instead of shorting himself in clubs, and that S2 decided to lead back an ace in next after seeing the maker already play off a diamond, when he has two perfectly good trump he could lead. He can show the ace to let his p play under if he has the left or he can lead low and save it, either way he still has an ace, 1 trump, and a void in clubs. I was really rooting for them to get euchred based on the way they played the hand.

RedDuke
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:11 pm

jspectre wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:08 pm
I'm extremely bothered that the maker throws off a diamond he's 2 suited in instead of shorting himself in clubs, and that S2 decided to lead back an ace in next after seeing the maker already play off a diamond, when he has two perfectly good trump he could lead. He can show the ace to let his p play under if he has the left or he can lead low and save it, either way he still has an ace, 1 trump, and a void in clubs. I was really rooting for them to get euchred based on the way they played the hand.
Did you see any mistakes from me being in S1?

jspectre
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:04 am

Unread post by jspectre » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:23 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:11 pm
Did you see any mistakes from me being in S1?
I don't think it's bad enough to call a mistake, but I'm leading the club here, a K can be boss if the ace is buried, The dealer most likely has a void in green, so either way you're guessing which one it is, so I lead the card with the best chance to take a trick here. Leading a low diamond here is a potential option as well if you want to try and catch S2 with an Ace in diamonds and hit your partners void, but that can just as easily go wrong, so I would just lead the K here more often than not.

RedDuke
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:20 am

jspectre wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:23 pm
RedDuke wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:11 pm
Did you see any mistakes from me being in S1?
I don't think it's bad enough to call a mistake, but I'm leading the club here, a K can be boss if the ace is buried, The dealer most likely has a void in green, so either way you're guessing which one it is, so I lead the card with the best chance to take a trick here. Leading a low diamond here is a potential option as well if you want to try and catch S2 with an Ace in diamonds and hit your partners void, but that can just as easily go wrong, so I would just lead the K here more often than not.
Why is the dealer more likely to be void in green than in next?

jspectre
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:04 am

Unread post by jspectre » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:10 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:20 am
jspectre wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:23 pm
RedDuke wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:11 pm
Did you see any mistakes from me being in S1?
I don't think it's bad enough to call a mistake, but I'm leading the club here, a K can be boss if the ace is buried, The dealer most likely has a void in green, so either way you're guessing which one it is, so I lead the card with the best chance to take a trick here. Leading a low diamond here is a potential option as well if you want to try and catch S2 with an Ace in diamonds and hit your partners void, but that can just as easily go wrong, so I would just lead the K here more often than not.
Why is the dealer more likely to be void in green than in next?
The dealer is the one who was ordered up and can create a void, the majority of people discard long, meaning they are most likely void in a green suit. However, good players shouldn't just discard green, they should discard the lowest reasonable suit, a K can be boss while a Q is less likely, but a Q is still much more likely than a 9, so don't discard high just because it's a long suit. Plenty of people lead next in order to catch others who only discard green, you may need to adjust your strategy against such players. I find the best results discarding green, and my partner is usually more likely to be able to trump a suit in next, so I will discard a green jack over a 9/10 in next, but never a Q or a K.

RedDuke
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:40 pm

jspectre wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:10 pm
RedDuke wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:20 am
jspectre wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:23 pm
I don't think it's bad enough to call a mistake, but I'm leading the club here, a K can be boss if the ace is buried, The dealer most likely has a void in green, so either way you're guessing which one it is, so I lead the card with the best chance to take a trick here. Leading a low diamond here is a potential option as well if you want to try and catch S2 with an Ace in diamonds and hit your partners void, but that can just as easily go wrong, so I would just lead the K here more often than not.
Why is the dealer more likely to be void in green than in next?
The dealer is the one who was ordered up and can create a void, the majority of people discard long, meaning they are most likely void in a green suit. However, good players shouldn't just discard green, they should discard the lowest reasonable suit, a K can be boss while a Q is less likely, but a Q is still much more likely than a 9, so don't discard high just because it's a long suit. Plenty of people lead next in order to catch others who only discard green, you may need to adjust your strategy against such players. I find the best results discarding green, and my partner is usually more likely to be able to trump a suit in next, so I will discard a green jack over a 9/10 in next, but never a Q or a K.
That's fair.

Normally a next lead is a pretty dumb move for S1 though. The only time it seems to work well for me is if I've got a lone ace in next. Even then I'm praying that my partner is the one with the void in next. That usually only works well if S2 ordered though. If my partner passed, he's probably got most of his strength in next and S2 or the dealer will have a next void. A green lead seems to work best if one of them ordered. In that case, I can see how your strategy of discarding green if your side ordered would be good.

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