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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sat May 29, 2021 2:15 am
Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat May 29, 2021 6:01 am
The choice is between Pass, call hearts or call Next. Honestly I can see a good argument for either choice. You know me I don't like passing in this spot up 4-1 when I don't block any suits HOWEVER one could argue for passing as S1 does have decent defense against all possible calls. He has 2 off aces vs a spade call or diamond call, and vs a heart call he has AhKh+ an off ace. I'd have to respect that argument since I can't prove them wrong.Tbolt65 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:15 amLet it be? Call something else or Jump the Fence?
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Unread post by irishwolf » Sat May 29, 2021 4:53 pm
Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sat May 29, 2021 5:36 pm
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat May 29, 2021 7:23 pm
S4 leading the Right on trick 2 would be very poor play. Leading the Right has no chance of cleaning out the maker and S4 has no idea what kind of distribution S2 or S3 has. With one trick already won, and the Right in his hand, S4 is probably gonna need his P to take a trick to get this euchre. S4 should go fishing on trick 2 as he did.
Unread post by irishwolf » Sun May 30, 2021 1:13 am
Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun May 30, 2021 5:40 am
This entire post is a classic example of terrible results oriented analysis. It's so bad it actually should be saved and studied so others can learn how NOT to approach this game.Tbolt65 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:36 pmWhat happened here is that Seat 3 did go with the Ace and it didn't work as we see and seat 4 takes with trump. fails to lead trump. That's his mistake. There are other mistake here. It's not a bad one but it's a logical one. Seat 3 trumps the with the Left the spade lead. They however lead back a club that Seat 1 sloughed off on. It was the Queen of club. Now Seat 3 leads back a club and it's a fresh suit and it's reasonable to try to lead it back to the make so that he has a safe card to trump with out fear of being over trumped. However as we see, he has another club unfortunately. A re-lead of diamonds would allow surely Seat 1 an opportunity to trump, but opens him up to be over trumped by seat 2 who is also out of trump. Generally jumping the fence the maker is going to have three or more trump or let's say Right-A thru Right-Queen. This isn't the case here.
Three mistakes in my book, seat 1 risky jumping the fence, Seat 4, not leading trump. Seat 3 partial mistake of not leading diamond back, although the club lead is not with out merit.
Tbolt65
Edward
Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sun May 30, 2021 1:31 pm
Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun May 30, 2021 1:55 pm
Saying stuff everyone already knows doesn't add to the discussion.Tbolt65 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 1:31 pmPlayer based assessment is different from general assessment of proper play. Since we all have played together enough. We all should have a grasp on how to play, against the player and for your partner. As to what they are capable of ordering and playing.
Those players who are unknowns and are typical demand standard playing as to what we all usually practice, preach and critique.
When it comes to knowns. That's where unconventional play and some risk taking is necessary. Where other wise be incorrect to play.
Tbolt65
Edward
Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sun May 30, 2021 6:51 pm
This is qualifying my previous post. It gives context yo my assertions. So it does add to the conversation. This is a part of the game that is so next level and fluid that it takes discipline and understanding of when to employ these tactics. Something of which I'm still perfecting. Something I need to be better at.Wes (aka the legend) wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 1:55 pmSaying stuff everyone already knows doesn't add to the discussion.Tbolt65 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 1:31 pmPlayer based assessment is different from general assessment of proper play. Since we all have played together enough. We all should have a grasp on how to play, against the player and for your partner. As to what they are capable of ordering and playing.
Those players who are unknowns and are typical demand standard playing as to what we all usually practice, preach and critique.
When it comes to knowns. That's where unconventional play and some risk taking is necessary. Where other wise be incorrect to play.
Tbolt65
Edward
Unread post by irishwolf » Sun May 30, 2021 8:12 pm
Unread post by LeftyK » Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:36 pm
Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:20 pm
No one mentions S3R1 becuz everyone knows that would be a bad call. If you are skeptical run your own experiment on the kitchen table. Give S4 the TC upcard and give S3 Jc9cAdJd9d. Shuffle and deal out all the other cards (If S1 or S2 has a calling hand immediately reshuffle and try again). For simplicity play all the hands as you would play them. Then compare the results of S3 calling to S3 passing over say 100 samples (use the method I delineated in the thread where I test 3S hands). That should be enough to reach a 95% CI, and the E0 of passing will beat out the EO of calling.LeftyK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:36 pm"wes- 'This entire post is a classic example of terrible results oriented analysis. It's so bad it actually should be saved and studied so others can learn how NOT to approach this game.' " === ok so seeing this is how I play;;; no one mentions S3R1. If I were sitting there and I truely trusted my P, I am calling Clubs here. Now, that said my trusting P m-u-s-t lead the ace of trumps first round b/c it forces s2 to choose which trump to throw. Either way, I'm using the right then double leading diamonds. And W/E make a point. Simple enough.
Unread post by Dlan » Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:34 am
Wes (aka the legend) wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:20 pm
If you are skeptical run your own experiment on the kitchen table.
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