Naked Next?

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Richardb02
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Naked Next?

Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:51 pm




irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue May 18, 2021 12:27 am

Gutsy call by S1. But I don't agree with the lead of KS. It would be an exception to the rule, don't lead what was turned down. Lead the AD, this way S3 can slough his garbage and the opponents spend a trump (generally).

S3 makes a mistake on trick two playing the 9H. Proper card to play is the QH. Force a higher trump, KH or JH. KH & JH will euchre S3/S1.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue May 18, 2021 12:59 am

irishwolf wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:27 am
Gutsy call by S1. But I don't agree with the lead of KS. It would be an exception to the rule, don't lead what was turned down. Lead the AD, this way S3 can slough his garbage and the opponents spend a trump (generally).
We had a thread on this same hand awhile back. I was S1 and I came to the same realization for the reasons you stated that my lead was wrong and that I should've led the AD.

Leading the AD also communicates to my P that not only do I have no trump but that Ace is also the only ace I have.

We can deduce that because if I had trump + an off ace, I would always lead trump. So when I lead an off ace that means I have no trump. And when I lead the turned down suit Ace we can deduce that's the only Ace I have cuz if I had a non-turned down Ace I'd lead that first. I'm not sure if this information is that valuable tho lol. A turned down ace lead is basically telling my P "youre on your own buddy", but it's something.

Months later I was in a similar spot with you as my P down 9-6 i think and I got it right and led the turned down suit ace. We made the point. You had one of those 4 jack hands in the 3 seat.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue May 18, 2021 1:16 am

irishwolf wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:27 am
Gutsy call by S1.
I would also add that I actually don't think the call was gutsy. I think the better word is the call was necessary. I think you would agree with me on this, up 5-1, blocking no suits S1 HAS to call something. That to me is the most important lesson in this hand. Whether S1 calls Next with nothing + an off ace or jumps the fence in clubs with 2 low trump + an off ace is immaterial to me. What matters is S1 understanding that he cannot pass in this spot. Not up 5-1.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue May 18, 2021 9:56 am

I would agree but not for what MOST of the folks do. I would and have made that call most any score. But I would have also led the AD by S1. There are actually times to lead the turned down suit, when you can make the point by yourself not counting on S3 for help, IF PLAYED CORRECTLY. One should be careful of these RULES OF THUMB that say NEVER do such and such.

If at S3 played the QH on trick 2 not the 9H. It made no sense to expose yourself to the 10H and the KH/JH with one trick gone.

I also remember on a thread a while back, S1 had one or two small Next suit and three of Opposite color. I was in S3, S1 crosses suit and gets euchred. It was an obvious (to me) a Next call or Pass. Oh well! You have to know when is WHEN.

Irishwolf

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Tue May 18, 2021 8:30 pm

Yes, this was posted before. I had OE hands that I hadn’t reviewed, in my saves. Here is the post:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=498

I understand the logic in ordering this Naked (no trump) Next. There is no defense in Reverse Next from S1’s perspective. Having nothing in Next actually increases the probability of S3 having power in Next. If you pass, you are likely to run into at least a sweep (your team will lose 2 points). The probability of a 4 point Loner (a near certainty in this particular hand) is acute. Your only chance is hitting your P in Next.

So, I have to take the wise counsel of the experienced players and incorporate the wisdom into my BPSystem approach. This hand is rare and General Principles (Wes’ term instead of “you must...”) be thrown out the window. BPS is definitely only a General Principle. BPSys only addresses the next level of play. BPXtreme is born! This extreme hand is an excellent example of how to elevate another notch. Thanks for your help guys!

I also cringed at the 9h play on trick 2. It was me! Fortunately, I have learned to play a higher trump, in that position, between the Jan 25 game and my May card play. I owe that to the OE games as well. Thank y’all again!

Leading the Ad (Ace of the turned down suit) now makes sense, too! This hand is unusual, even rare. All general principles are suspect at best. I get it, now!

A good General Principle, for everyone, is to read and re-read these posts and play OE games Monday or Fridays. You can save every game in real time on WoCG. What seems impossible to comprehend, will make sense with enough experience, perseverance and some effort.



irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue May 18, 2021 9:37 pm

BPXtreme is born!

That was my next question to the MAN IN THE MOON! :lol:

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Thu May 20, 2021 3:30 pm

I know it's a bit slow on the forum but is this E X A C T hand that has already been hashed out 4 months ago necessary to discuss all over again? ... I don't get it.

Richardb02 » Tue May 18, 2021 8:30 pm

Yes, this was posted before. I had OE hands that I hadn’t reviewed, in my saves. Here is the post:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=498

irishwolf
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Thu May 20, 2021 4:16 pm

Ask Richard!

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