Monday Night Euchre Hand #2

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Tbolt65
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Monday Night Euchre Hand #2

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:56 pm

The second hand of request by Lefty, I did not have the others Irishwolf was speaking of.


With current hand make up, I order this all day. If I had a different hand make up say Left and King. I pass all day. However if I had right and king with say left protected in red. Normally I'd still order since I don't like to bag my partner but like Irishwolf said, I would give my partner a shot at going alone. With all that being said. In this current hand we see below. I agree with this order. Gotta get points. It could get passed and may get ugly if seat 1 goes alone or they march.


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https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D


Tbolt65
Edward
Last edited by Tbolt65 on Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm

I will say it again, when down by 4 or more points and you have an excellent partner, YOU PASS! I am not saying that most would also assist. But that is not ELITE PLAYING. I hope you are listening Ed?

So read what really good partnerships do:

When you do you will get a lot of cheap Loners. Of course less than really good players would assist. I have that agreement with my regular partner DO NOT ORDER ME FROM 2ND WHEN DOWN BY 4 OR MORE. And guess what, we do extremely well, and call it a CONVENTION IF Y0U WILL. Average players, well why not assist. Do you think down 7 to 2 a good player is going to Pass? You have to be Kidding. Just what sort of hands do you think I would be passing on? It is the difference between average and good.

Oh and do this Lefty says, "IF I were down 9-1 or 9-3 I would normally lone this hand, but ..." More non sense! Your results will be worst than the other posted loner.

IRISHWOLF

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:17 am

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm
I will say it again, when down by 4 or more points and you have an excellent partner, YOU PASS! I am not saying that most would also assist. But that is not ELITE PLAYING. I hope you are listening Ed?

So read what really good partnerships do:

When you do you will get a lot of cheap Loners. Of course less than really good players would assist. I have that agreement with my regular partner DO NOT ORDER ME FROM 2ND WHEN DOWN BY 4 OR MORE. And guess what, we do extremely well, and call it a CONVENTION IF Y0U WILL. Average players, well why not assist. Do you think down 7 to 2 a good player is going to Pass? You have to be Kidding. Just what sort of hands do you think I would be passing on? It is the difference between average and good.

Oh and do this Lefty says, "IF I were down 9-1 or 9-3 I would normally lone this hand, but ..." More non sense! Your results will be worst than the other posted loner.

IRISHWOLF
I definitely agree with the idea that S2 should order less often when down a certain amount of points or more. Even with a bad partner I'll do this. Sometimes you just gotta hope to get lucky. For example, At 0-0 I will order this from the 2 seat (assume 9H upcard):

(Card_K-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_A-S) (Card_10-S) (Card_A-C)

But If I'm down 7-2, I back off hoping my P has that loner.

That said, even down 7-2, with a strong P, I'm ordering up with R+1 from the 2 spot. I mean with R+1, what are the odds that S4 really has that loner?? It just doesn't feel high enough to matter. And this is especially true in a tough game where S1 donates well. BTW, up 7-2 that's a really bad non-donate by S1. No trump, 1 ace should be an auto-donate at that score no questions asked.

But I still agree with your idea Wolf. Certainly if I have L+1+A and your my P I will back off when we are down 4 or more now. And I certainly won't call with 2 low trump + 2 aces or 2 low trump + an ace, nor will I make thin calls like R+0+2 off aces at that score. So yeah, I'm fully behind the philosophy, and I'm going to adjust my play accordingly for you in the future Wolf. I just don't think it applies to R+1.

BTW, I assume that when our team is down 4 or more you never want me ordering up your Right even IF I have 3 trump (unless I have a loner). For example, say the JH is the upcard and I have this:

(Card_Q-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_9-S)

You want me to pass, correct? I can totally get behind that convention. But if we're in a tough game where S1 donates properly, I probably should just order it up.

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:09 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:14 pm
I will say it again, when down by 4 or more points and you have an excellent partner, YOU PASS! I am not saying that most would also assist. But that is not ELITE PLAYING. I hope you are listening Ed?

So read what really good partnerships do:

When you do you will get a lot of cheap Loners. Of course less than really good players would assist. I have that agreement with my regular partner DO NOT ORDER ME FROM 2ND WHEN DOWN BY 4 OR MORE. And guess what, we do extremely well, and call it a CONVENTION IF Y0U WILL. Average players, well why not assist. Do you think down 7 to 2 a good player is going to Pass? You have to be Kidding. Just what sort of hands do you think I would be passing on? It is the difference between average and good.

Oh and do this Lefty says, "IF I were down 9-1 or 9-3 I would normally lone this hand, but ..." More non sense! Your results will be worst than the other posted loner.

IRISHWOLF
With you, I can lay off the throttle down four or more. No problem there. Patnerships have to have guidelines I'll add that to ours....But yeah I would not go alone with that hand. I think I misspoke or you misconstruted me on that one. :>)

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:31 pm

Irishwolf it has been my experience that wildly passing and trying loners and letting your partner try in hopes they goes alone. It Needs to be tempered with taking the sure thing even at extreme scores. Play for two. You don't think I've played like you subscribed before? In regards to passing bidable hands so my elite partners can go alone?

Just because your down a wide margin doesn't necessarily mean you have to get looser with your range of loner tries to make up ground on your opponents. Or to pass bidable hands. You have to be realistic in your goals and really try to play smart. Especially against tougher opponents. You give up wayyyyyyyy too much when you miss, if they happen to pass or worse get euchred. Or still worse pass and they go alone to win game or they make 2 to win game.

It is better to grind it out in a lot of situations in the long run.


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Edward

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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:15 pm

Here's a thought;

Enter west seats hand into the workshop and see what happens if west passes, and the dealer calls. Does he get euchred, make a point, two, four? In none of 20+ hands I tried, did 3rd have the cards to call.

I'm not going to post my results, but I think this may offer a little insight as to the best play.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:39 pm

Dlan wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:15 pm
Here's a thought;

Enter west seats hand into the workshop and see what happens if west passes, and the dealer calls. Does he get euchred, make a point, two, four? In none of 20+ hands I tried, did 3rd have the cards to call.

I'm not going to post my results, but I think this may offer a little insight as to the best play.
I like the idea dlan but it has to be a scenario similar but where dealer is passing. Having a hand were dealer is picking up anways and still play it as passing for seat 1. Won't net the true results you are looking for.

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Edward

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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:39 pm

I’m not really sure what you are saying here. Seeing all the cards laid out in front of you wouldn’t give you true results? As I said, in no hands I looked at would 3rd have called. That puts the burden on the dealer. As wolf pointed out, “no good player is going to pass”

The original question was should west have ordered? I’m offering a way to see what may have happened if they didn’t.

Unless of course, you are rejecting the computer's ability to deal cards. In that case, one could lay them out on the kitchen table.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:19 pm

Dlan wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:39 pm
I’m not really sure what you are saying here. Seeing all the cards laid out in front of you wouldn’t give you true results? As I said, in no hands I looked at would 3rd have called. That puts the burden on the dealer. As wolf pointed out, “no good player is going to pass”

The original question was should west have ordered? I’m offering a way to see what may have happened if they didn’t.

Unless of course, you are rejecting the computer's ability to deal cards. In that case, one could lay them out on the kitchen table.

Ok nvmind yeah, playing it out from if s3 passes and a dealer order. Otherwise you have to change dealers hand if you want to see a pass back to s1.

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Edward

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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:49 pm

All cards except the west seat and the turn card change on redeal.

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