Friday 4-22 Hand #4

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Tbolt65
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Friday 4-22 Hand #4

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:28 am

In this hand, South/North is up 4-1. North has total garbage. North doesn't order up to donate and it gets passed around and North passes twice. Seat 2 calls hearts and get's euchred. The point here I am showing is not that there was a successful euchre. It is that sometimes calling nothing can have positive effects like, A. getting a euchre, or B. not giving up a -2 and only giving away a -1. Minimizing your give-aways in the long run and in tough games are part of the little things I like to preach and show and this something that is worth while to consider and is needed.


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Tbolt65
Edward



Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:08 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:28 am
In this hand, South/North is up 4-1. North has total garbage. North doesn't order up to donate and it gets passed around and North passes twice. Seat 2 calls hearts and get's euchred. The point here I am showing is not that there was a successful euchre. It is that sometimes calling nothing can have positive effects like, A. getting a euchre, or B. not giving up a -2 and only giving away a -1. Minimizing your give-aways in the long run and in tough games are part of the little things I like to preach and show and this something that is worth while to consider and is needed.
Tbolt65
Edward
Up 4-1, S1 needs to donate with that hand. S2 correctly calls hearts but S2 screwed up the hand!!! (I was S2 sigh)

S2 throws off on the 2nd lead which is fine on the surface becuz he has no boss offsuit to fall back on (he needs his P's help somewhere here). But simple hand-reading logic should tell S2 that his offsuit TC is an effective boss card. Why? Becuz S1 led the KC on 1st Street and won the first trick. S3 showed void in clubs and S4 showed the JC. and if S1 had the AC or QC he would probably double lead the maker on 2nd street, but he didn't which strongly suggests he has no more clubs. So either S2's TC is boss or his P has the boss QC. Therefore S2's TC is an effective boss card. With this information in hand, S2 should NOT play off on 2nd street. He should trump in and lead trump. If he does that his team makes the point.

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:54 am

yeah there's no way, s2 calling r2 having top 3of4 should be laying off trumps on 2nd street. hit and lead em and see where you stand. that doubleton club wins 5th street and the makers make a point. but sometimes the enemy passes and the other team makes a mistake (or two).

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:32 pm

LeftyK wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:54 am
yeah there's no way, s2 calling r2 having top 3of4 should be laying off trumps on 2nd street.
In general this is not true at all. If S2 knows he's gonna need his partner's help to get the pt, laying off on a 2nd street S1 garbage lead is standard.

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:06 pm

again if you are going to go next with me, go alone. this hand right here is the main reason you and I will never success as a partnership. (we lost on the night 10-3, 10-5, 10-5, and 10-1) and sorry, there's no excuse to be down two tricks to none there when you own top 3 of 4 trumps. own it.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:20 am

LeftyK wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:06 pm
again if you are going to go next with me, go alone.
What are you talking about. I don't have a loner. I have an obvious heart call. This is amateur hour hoyle loyal logic. I understand that your hand is more likely to have black bowers than the JH, but that doesn't change the fact that calling Hearts is the correct play. All I can do is make the correct call. Anybody that calls clubs or passes in that spot is taking hoyle to a religious degree.
LeftyK wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:06 pm
this hand right here is the main reason you and I will never success as a partnership.

Dude, you are obviously in the beginning phase of euchre. You don't even know how to discard correctly, which frankly is shocking, and every time we play together I have 2 pages of notes on the mistakes you've made. You are the clear weak point in our game and everyone knows it and is nice to you, including me. Why? Becuz it's just a game. Stay in your lane bro. Stay humble and keep learning.
LeftyK wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:06 pm
(we lost on the night 10-3, 10-5, 10-5, and 10-1)

Who cares. Wins and losses are just noise. All we can do is make the best play possible each hand. That's what we can control. Yesterday I lost two games becuz my partners made critical 1 pt mistakes. Do I care? No, because #1 it's just a game, and #2 why would I waste time getting upset about things I cannot control. Your focus on wins and losses is definitely hindering your development. It's also a poor life strategy to go through life with a results-oriented mindset. Expect to be frustrated a lot.
LeftyK wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:06 pm
and sorry, there's no excuse to be down two tricks to none there when you own top 3 of 4 trumps. own it.
I already DID own it. I said I screwed up the hand. My point is this claim is incorrect:
yeah there's no way, s2 calling r2 having top 3of4 should be laying off trumps on 2nd street.
I don't care if the opposing team won the first trick. If S2/Maker KNOWS that they need their partner's help to scratch a point, and S1 leads a 9 of nothing on 2nd street, you have to play off again. It's as simple as that, generally speaking. The reason why I screwed up the hand is becuz hand reading logic dictated there was a decent chance I DID NOT need my P's help to scratch a point. And when that is the case, playing off and risking a euchre those times the enemy has the Right bower is a mistake. But when you know you need your P's help, taking that risk is now worth it and necessary.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:19 pm

Guys, Guys. Look. We all have the ability from our own perspectives to see what is what and we can understand why and why not particular plays have been done. We all make mistakes, every single one of us. The "type" of mistakes though do however tell you if it was an error in judgement/play, if one didn't pay attention or even forgot what is boss, what is left or what was turned down. Each mistake(s) have varying degrees of egregiousness. Constantly making multiple types of mistakes will cause errors in the games where it will be obvious to see by all. What we should all strive to do is make as little mistakes as possible and ones if we do make do not effect the outcome. Call these hiccups every now and then. However if these hiccups are constant then there is a larger underlying problem at hand. There is too much to go into to break down the varying degree's of mistakes and even holes. Ranging from, getting euchre'd too much on hands, to over donating too much. To misplaying hands that could or even should have resulted in a set. Remember mistakes at higher levels of play are that much harder to over come. Or if at all. Against lesser players its easy to come back because their game is not as robust as your own. So your mistakes don't hurt you as much. However in our games whether it be the Monday night/Friday night games. Mistakes will be painfully obvious and it is going to be the difference maker. That is why with the hand reviews we don't take it personal. It's why we keep everyone's names omitted unless someone asks if it was them. Then we can go ahead and share that information. We come here to discuss and highlight what caught our eyes, whether it be interesting, good, or bad play. So we can get to an understanding and we can either learn or see what is going on.


Now sometimes what one may see as a mistake could be a gamble and sometimes it is justified. You take your shots based on information you have. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. On these gambles don't automatically assume it's a flaw a persons game. We have to get to see the frame of mind of why a particular play was employed. We will be able to tell if it was due to faulty play logic or just it was a good idea and didn't pay off.


If anyone want's my opinion of your game play. Come to me and ask and I will tell you. I will not say it here because it can be construed/taken the wrong way.


Just remember like I said up in the begging of this. We all make mistakes. Every single one of us. We should all work on playing as perfect as we can in every facet of the game and keep the mistakes that happen simple stupid ones and not gapping holes in one's play ones. If we do that we can all be the best player we can be. Sure there are going to be days where you are just messing up and your like wtf is going on with me today. We all can have those days. Just let it go and keep hammering away at being the best.


Tbolt65
Edward

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