OE games 3-29-21 - oh, what to do

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Dlan
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OE games 3-29-21 - oh, what to do

Unread post by Dlan » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:01 am

Black lone called, holding both red A-K doubletons how to decide?

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https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D



Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:26 pm

Well you have to guess here if you cant get any meaningful read off your partner which in this case there is nothing you can properly ascertain from your partner. I personally would fall back on keeping diamonds over hearts vs clubs here because I usually associate them being related and in a previous posted I talked about my discarding when ordering or being ordered.

Nothing really to fault here. Its a toss up.

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:34 pm

i tried. I got split no two ways about it. I don't see how my P can show me what to keep when I'm ahead of laying down cards. Edward, can you elaborate or show me the link to the post you are saying keeping diamonds?

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:05 pm

Not really sure where its at. This hand is a total toss up. Sometimes you choose right, sometimes wrong. Im on my phone at work so copy and pasting is better for me on my desktop if I were to find it.

I'll sum up here. I personally like to keep diamonds vs clubs in certain situations. Call it my personal justifications when nothing else can be understood. Its still a 50/50 but I seen to have sucess doing it. Same way for discarding when ordering or being ordered although thats a little more indepth in my rationalization of discarding.

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Edward

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:04 pm

NOT A GUESS, IF PLAYED CORRECTLY BY THE DEALER. Every card played means something. The JH will at lease cover 9H, 10H, and dealers 9S covers nothing and 10S played.

Well you have to guess here if you cant get any meaningful read off your partner which in this case there is nothing you can properly ascertain from your partner. NOT REALLY.

Issue is S2 sloughs 10S, so Dealer knows he is not saving spades. So Dealer has no diamonds as a stopper but knows S2 sloughed both aces. Thus, he should have sloughed the 9D. Made no sense to slough 9s knowing his partner had both KD & KH.

Just my opinion.

IRISHWOLF

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:16 pm

LeftyK wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:34 pm
i tried. I got split no two ways about it. I don't see how my P can show me what to keep when I'm ahead of laying down cards. Edward, can you elaborate or show me the link to the post you are saying keeping diamonds?

Found it.
OE 032221 thread check out my responses
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Edward

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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:42 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:04 pm
NOT A GUESS, IF PLAYED CORRECTLY BY THE DEALER. Every card played means something. The JH will at lease cover 9H, 10H, and dealers 9S covers nothing and 10S played.



Just my opinion.

IRISHWOLF
I agree.

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Edward

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:17 pm

Agree with Irishwolf. This loner is on S4. S4 knew from the beginning that he's covering hearts just by looking at his hand. Once S2 shows him he's covering both diamonds and hearts, S4 needs to relieve him from that dilemma and play the 9D letting him know he's not covering that suit so S2 CAN keep that suit til the end.

The only question left in this hand is what line is better for S2 in the long run? Should S2 show he's covering both hearts and diamonds on the first two leads as he did? Or should S2 play the TS on the first lead letting his P know right away that he's not covering that suit, and then on 2nd street and 3rd street show his P he can cover either diamonds or hearts by playing both aces? Or maybe it doesn't matter. I would tend to play the TS on the first lead. The fact that I can give my P accurate information of what I'm not covering on the very first lead has value to me. If I do that, then on 2nd street and 3rd street I have to play both red aces cuz playing a King singles to my P I don't have those suits covered when I actually do.

No matter what line S2 takes tho S4 MUST play the 9d on 3rd street. S4 already knows he and his P are not covering spades, and S4 already knows he's gonna keep the JH til the end, so he has to let his P know asap--on 3rd street--that he's not covering diamonds.

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Unread post by irishwolf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:51 pm

I agree, AND it does matter. By playing in this manner to me it just adds confusion by discarding one then the other consecutively. You stop the confusion by discarding the 10S first.

FIRST PRIORITY IS to signal what you are not saving, and that is the first defender's job as he has to play first. Then an ACE after the 10S has been played. Here, on 3rd trick Dealer signals he has nothing in Diamonds (9D). Spades is dead as a stopper, so that is 2nd priority by the dealer so you do NOT SQUEEZE YOUR PARTNER.

S2 still keeps either the king or the ace as Eldest just might have a doubleton to the other suit. By playing in this manner to me it just adds confusion by discarding one then the other consecutively.

WEST SAID, "The only question left in this hand is what line is better for S2 in the long run? Should S2 show he's covering both hearts and diamonds on the first two leads as he did? Or should S2 play the TS on the first lead letting his P know right away that he's not covering that suit, and then on 2nd street and 3rd street show his P he can cover either diamonds or hearts by playing both aces? Or maybe it doesn't matter. I would tend to play the TS on the first lead. The fact that I can give my P accurate information of what I'm not covering on the very first lead has value to me. If I do that, then on 2nd street and 3rd street I have to play both red aces cuz playing a King singles to my P I don't have those suits covered when I actually do.

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