Weakest Loner Hand?

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RedDuke
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Weakest Loner Hand?

Post by RedDuke » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:48 am

Last night, I was playing a game online. I was dealer, turn card was the jack of clubs.

I was holding Ten of Diamonds, Ace-Hearts, Ace-Queen of Spades, and the Nine of Clubs.

I chose to pick up the Jack, discarded the Ten of Diamonds, and went alone. I ended up failing the lone, but did make a point.

This got me wondering, what's the weakest hand that is worth it trying alone? In this case, with us being down 8-0, the two off aces, and me having last play, it was worth the gamble. Probably wouldn't have tried if the score had been closer though.

What's the consensus here as to the weakest loner out there?



Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:12 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:48 am
Last night, I was playing a game online. I was dealer, turn card was the jack of clubs.

I was holding Ten of Diamonds, Ace-Hearts, Ace-Queen of Spades, and the Nine of Clubs.

I chose to pick up the Jack, discarded the Ten of Diamonds, and went alone. I ended up failing the lone, but did make a point.

This got me wondering, what's the weakest hand that is worth it trying alone? In this case, with us being down 8-0, the two off aces, and me having last play, it was worth the gamble. Probably wouldn't have tried if the score had been closer though.

What's the consensus here as to the weakest loner out there?
As the dealer, this should be a standard loner at ANY score with the exception of those times your team has 8 or 9 points. This hand really doesn't get set that often and it makes a sweep often enough to be worth the gamble.

As far as the weakest 2 trump loner configuration when you're the dealer: Say you're down 9-6, the trump suit is hearts and after you pick up you have a hand like

(Card_A-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_A-D) (Card_10-D)

You should go for the win and go alone. If both bowers are buried you have a shot. I've won (or stolen lol) games on several occasions with this hand.

Also, don't forget one trump loners too!!

You're dealer, trump is hearts, after you pick up you have:

(Card_J-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_Q-C) (Card_A-D) (Card_A-S)

Down 9-6 it would be a grave crime not to try this hand. This hand actually rarely goes set and is probably worth going alone at any score save 8/9 scenarios. Certainly this much is true: if you have this hand and your partner hesitates but passes, go alone with this hand every time excluding 8/9 score scenarios.

Another crazy two trump hail mary loner: You're the dealer and trump is hearts. After you pick up you have

(Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_K-S) (Card_10-S) (Card_9-S)

Down 9-6 you gotta try it. If the (Card_A-S) is buried and your opponents each only have 1 trump you can be a hero.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:36 pm

That would be cheating if you partner hesitated. Nothing can be imitated by your partner to giver you information.

Certainly this much is true: if you have this hand and your partner hesitates but passes, go alone with this hand every time excluding 8/9 score scenarios.

If you can't win fair and square, don't play the game. I hate cheaters!

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:40 pm

There should be a rule that if the dealer's partner hesitates with a biddable hand and opponents say you hesitated, then the dealer makes trump with a weak hand, they should their deal. If it is noticeable to the opponents, it's noticeable to the dealer.

I see it in tournaments - DISCUSSING.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:57 am

irishwolf wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:36 pm
That would be cheating if you partner hesitated. Nothing can be imitated by your partner to giver you information.

Certainly this much is true: if you have this hand and your partner hesitates but passes, go alone with this hand every time excluding 8/9 score scenarios.

If you can't win fair and square, don't play the game. I hate cheaters!
I'm gonna assume you've never played euchre live before. When you play with real people, everybody hesitates all the time. It's not obvious. It's usually very subtle, but those who watch closely will pick up on it.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:34 pm

Quoting you WE$S,

I'm gonna assume you've never played euchre live before. When you play with real people, everybody hesitates all the time. It's not obvious. It's usually very subtle, but those who watch closely will pick up on it.

When you make assumptions you make an ASS of yourself. Below is from Dwight & Leeds which are still current Rules on Euchre. Foster also says the same. Hesitations are is a intimation as to the strength of your hand, thus ILLEGAL.

It's sad that you have to cheat to decide what you will do with your hand. That makes you a CHEAT!

No intimation whatever by word or gesture should be given by a player as to the state of the hand or the game after the trump card is turned.
x

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:13 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:34 pm
When you make assumptions you make an ASS of yourself. Below is from Dwight & Leeds which are still current Rules on Euchre. Foster also says the same. Hesitations are is a intimation as to the strength of your hand, thus ILLEGAL.

It's sad that you have to cheat to decide what you will do with your hand. That makes you a CHEAT!

No intimation whatever by word or gesture should be given by a player as to the state of the hand or the game after the trump card is turned.
x
Euchre is a game of incomplete information just like poker. Humans are not perfect robots. Useful information can be inferred by how fast they pass or call, even if the difference is extremely subtle. Paying attention to other's actions and tendencies is not cheating. It is just another essential part of the game that one should master if they wanna be a great player. Anybody that plays with humans in real life should understand what I'm talking about. Of course on the flip side I try my hardest to never give any information away with my own actions.

EG: You got one of those hands that are on the edge between calling and going alone, but all 3 players at the table pass quickly, without a hint of hesitation. It may be time to go for it.

Catch10110
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Location: Aurora, IL

Post by Catch10110 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:45 am

If someone is hesitating obviously, intentionally, and repeatedly, then yeah, I think it's fair to say something. But the fact is that sometimes you need to take a second to think about what to do, or you know immediately that you're passing...those calls just sound different.

You're not getting any REAL information, in the end it'll be up to the cards.

irishwolf
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:19 pm

Sometimes it is very obvious with the hesitating at the 2nd seat. I still say hesitating on first row by the dealer's partner is criminal in serious tournaments. I can see taking your time by inexperienced players on 2nd round, not first. There is only approximately two deals to in a game. To see repetitive and the game is over - dealer can go alone based on that hesitation or pick it up on a marginal hand that he would have passed on. I don't want to play with experienced players who hesitate and know better. That is totally different than beginners.

On taking a moment to decide . . . you have five cards. When the cards are dealt I already know what I am going to do with the upcard as well as if the dealer turns it down I know what to call and my Five card strategy based on what is led. It is not rocket science.

But the fact is that sometimes you need to take a second to think about what to do, or you know immediately that you're passing...those calls just sound different.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:57 am

irishwolf wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:19 pm
Sometimes it is very obvious with the hesitating at the 2nd seat. I still say hesitating on first row by the dealer's partner is criminal in serious tournaments. I can see taking your time by inexperienced players on 2nd round, not first. There is only approximately two deals to in a game. To see repetitive and the game is over - dealer can go alone based on that hesitation or pick it up on a marginal hand that he would have passed on. I don't want to play with experienced players who hesitate and know better. That is totally different than beginners.
I agree with everything above. Another spot where a hesitation can give away useful information is when your partner pauses longer than he should (unintentionally) in the first round from the 3rd seat. Now you know a weak next call is probably gonna work.
irishwolf wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:19 pm
On taking a moment to decide . . . you have five cards. When the cards are dealt I already know what I am going to do with the upcard as well as if the dealer turns it down I know what to call and my Five card strategy based on what is led. It is not rocket science.
I agree but the thing is most people just don't take the game seriously enough to "just know" what they are gonna do ahead of time. Even in the tournament I play in there are a lot of amateurs just there to have fun, and they just can't think that quickly, and of course their untimely pauses give information away.

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