OE games 3-1-21 When opps hold both bars

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Dlan
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OE games 3-1-21 When opps hold both bars

Unread post by Dlan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:32 am

Here are two interesting hands The first is from our Monday nights, the second just a random game I was in. In both hands, while the opponents held both bars, the calls were successful.

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https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

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https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D



Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:44 am

Both times the player with the right failed to take the trick. In each scenario a suit that had been already played is lead again and its very low. There is no way that its going to be good as to take a trick. The thinking of holding back the bauer here for the last truck and euchre is flawed. The only sure thing is they can trump in and have 2 tricks in with one card to come. The only hope they really have is hopping their partner can take the last trick. Most people dont see this and only see that they have the boss and clings desperately in hopes of their partners second suit lead thru at the end is good. Its never good especially with how weak the maker played it. You know they have trump left,but the question is how high. Gotta give your team the best shot to win. Have to trump in with the right on that second to last trick in both scenarios as how it was played and unfolded.

Tbolt65
Edward

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:32 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:44 am
Both times the player with the right failed to take the trick. In each scenario a suit that had been already played is lead again and its very low. There is no way that its going to be good as to take a trick. The thinking of holding back the bauer here for the last truck and euchre is flawed. The only sure thing is they can trump in and have 2 tricks in with one card to come. The only hope they really have is hopping their partner can take the last trick. Most people dont see this and only see that they have the boss and clings desperately in hopes of their partners second suit lead thru at the end is good. Its never good especially with how weak the maker played it. You know they have trump left,but the question is how high. Gotta give your team the best shot to win. Have to trump in with the right on that second to last trick in both scenarios as how it was played and unfolded.

Tbolt65
Edward
Well said. Most people simply do not know how to play for the euchre. In the first scenario the maker's team had a 2-1 trick lead on 4th street and S4, the maker, hadn't even played trump yet meaning his last two cards pretty much HAVE to be trump cards. So S3 playing off on 4th street means he's just handing his opponents a guaranteed point! S3's only chance at euchring the enemy is trumping in and hoping his P has the highest trump left. When you only have one possible way out you take it! As you mentioned, this is a terrible and common mistake. In many spots people cling to the Right bower when it makes no sense.

Similar story in the 2nd hand. The makers team has a 2-1 trick lead on 4th street. S1 leads a non-fresh club. We already know the maker is void in clubs and we know the maker has the QD left in trump cuz that's the card he picked up! So once again S3 playing off on 4th street and holding onto the Right for no reason just hands the maker's team an easy point. Instead S3 should trump in hoping his P has the highest trump left. Never hold on to the Right for no reason. Always play for the euchre.

I think if one studies the game hard, they can make a lot of strides quickly as far as what to call and why in the first and 2nd round and how to generally play on offense. Just reading all the articles on this site is a godsend. This can be down reasonably well without many games of experience.

But to play well on defense, to maximize those euchres, there really is no substitute for experience. Gotta get those thousands of games in. Preferably 10K games or more. Gotta see virtually every spot over and over, make lots of mistakes and learn from them. There really is no other way to mastering this. Of course you still always should have a hand to talk about or think about, read as much info you can on this stuff, posting hands our reading about hands on defense to supplement that experience. But man, no matter how much you read, you're just not gonna make that much progress on D without getting the requisite volume of hands/games in. It's too complicated to be easily taught in lessons. You gotta get that crucial experience.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:21 am

Example 1 above, True to not trumping in on trick 4.

However, I see a mistake also by S2 on Trick 1. It would have better for S1 to use the concept of "2nd hand low", not trump in and start those aces before trump has been led.

So what should S1 have done, you have two aces, signal by playing AD to the Club led. Now the dealer wins the trick with the QC. He now, knowing his partner has diamonds (KD) and he the AC, leads trump (9H) to trick 2. It pulls the TH & JH leaving only the JD with opponents.

So now S2 is in a great position if opponents avoid diamonds, they lead to your AS and you have a better chance of both aces working. But the dealer cannot be timid and not lead trump. You have to lead trump with a weak hand with an ace, get trump led quickly.

After leading trump on trick 2, there is no way the opponents can euchre S2/S4. The principle is not to steal the Captaincy, it is not always good to trump in just because you can. Let the maker win that trick and decide how best to tackle the hand. So what if you let the first trick slide by. Ya, I know some believe get your trick. I see many times getting euchred because you stole the first trick from the dealer who has a weak hand of Right + 1 and an ACE and your partner just spoiled the hand. Oh My, to each his own!

Just some advice.

~Irishwolf

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:46 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:21 am
Example 1 above, True to not trumping in on trick 4.

However, I see a mistake also by S2 on Trick 1. It would have better for S1 to use the concept of "2nd hand low", not trump in and start those aces before trump has been led.

So what should S1 have done, you have two aces, signal by playing AD to the Club led. Now the dealer wins the trick with the QC. He now, knowing his partner has diamonds (KD) and he the AC, leads trump (9H) to trick 2. It pulls the TH & JH leaving only the JD with opponents.

So now S2 is in a great position if opponents avoid diamonds, they lead to your AS and you have a better chance of both aces working. But the dealer cannot be timid and not lead trump. You have to lead trump with a weak hand with an ace, get trump led quickly.

After leading trump on trick 2, there is no way the opponents can euchre S2/S4. The principle is not to steal the Captaincy, it is not always good to trump in just because you can. Let the maker win that trick and decide how best to tackle the hand. So what if you let the first trick slide by. Ya, I know some believe get your trick. I see many times getting euchred because you stole the first trick from the dealer who has a weak hand of Right + 1 and an ACE and your partner just spoiled the hand. Oh My, to each his own!

Just some advice.

~Irishwolf
Good points Irishwolf. Thanks for the further breakdown.

Tbolt65
Edward

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