OE - bottom 3 trumps wins the game

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LeftyK
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:45 am
Location: North Carolina

OE - bottom 3 trumps wins the game

Unread post by LeftyK » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:06 pm

Partner said he was calling but I made the call from s2r1.
Cannot win any uglier than jax buried. BUT had we not called, first chair has a automatic 4 pt hand.
This is why you call it as the dealing team...

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https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D



Richardb02
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:51 pm

I agree that ordering is the wise move, in general. BPS even supports ordering (details below). It is the best approach, IMO, with an average or unknown partner.

However, on Monday night OE games, I would have passed. By passing, the decision would be made by S4, Dealer. Any S4 player, again of Monday night caliber, would have donated from S4. The result would have been the same. I have learned that “give your partner a chance” includes the chance to order properly.

My BPS analysis:
1.00 R1S2
0.25 9h
-.50 Only 1 trump
0.75 As, Singleton green Ace
0.25 Ad, Doubleton black ace.
0.25 Qh Up Card
2.00 Subtotal, the value of the hand, too weak to order usually
+.25 9-7, or better score
+.25 Minimum donation adjustment
2.50 Order, at the minimum 2.50
+.25 for weak ordering partner, not needed but instructive
2.75 Definitely order

jblowery
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Unread post by jblowery » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:45 pm

I usually call with 3 Trump with a few exceptions but they don't come up too often

Wes (aka the legend)
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:46 am

jblowery wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:45 pm
I usually call with 3 Trump with a few exceptions but they don't come up too often
S2 only has 1 low trump, and S4 only has 2 low trump. IOW they have 3 trump between them. Would you call from S2 in this spot? If S2 passes would you call in the dealer spot with 2 low trump + nothing in this spot?

jblowery
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Unread post by jblowery » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:48 am

Id pick up with 3 low trump plus nothing else. Yes.unless other team has 8. Did it today. As dealer I picked up a club to give me the following:

(Card_Q-C) (Card_10-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_9-S) (Card_10-S). I took 2 but we got euchered. Oh well. Would have lost at least 1 pt anyway if I had passed.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1423
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:09 am

jblowery wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:48 am
Id pick up with 3 low trump plus nothing else. Yes.unless other team has 8. Did it today. As dealer I picked up a club to give me the following:

(Card_Q-C) (Card_10-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_9-S) (Card_10-S). I took 2 but we got euchered. Oh well. Would have lost at least 1 pt anyway if I had passed.
I'd pick that hand up at any score. But back to the OP. Up 9-4 would you call with S2's hand: 1 low trump + 2 aces or S4's hand: 2 low trump + nothing.

Tbolt65
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Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:36 pm

At being up 9 to 4 you want to close out tbe game so you can order up lighter here to your partner in the dealer postion. Wes and I have discussed these very scenarios. However it is very important that your partner understands this. If not, then you can easily find yourself euchred. Do Not do this with a random partner.

Tbolt65
Edward

jblowery
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Unread post by jblowery » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:39 am

I agree - I wouldn't do this with a random partner. I order up extra light when the other team has 9 and that's it.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1423
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:51 pm
I agree that ordering is the wise move, in general. BPS even supports ordering (details below). It is the best approach, IMO, with an average or unknown partner.

However, on Monday night OE games, I would have passed. By passing, the decision would be made by S4, Dealer. Any S4 player, again of Monday night caliber, would have donated from S4. The result would have been the same. I have learned that “give your partner a chance” includes the chance to order properly.

My BPS analysis:
1.00 R1S2
0.25 9h
-.50 Only 1 trump
0.75 As, Singleton green Ace
0.25 Ad, Doubleton black ace.
0.25 Qh Up Card
2.00 Subtotal, the value of the hand, too weak to order usually
+.25 9-7, or better score
+.25 Minimum donation adjustment
2.50 Order, at the minimum 2.50
+.25 for weak ordering partner, not needed but instructive
2.75 Definitely order
Yep, If I had to write a chapter on dealer donating this hand would be a perfect illustration. Up 9-4, dealer blocks nothing if he passes. Perfect time to order up 2 low trump, no aces, and hope to get lucky.

As far as S2's play, IDK it's hard to say if it's wrong or right. He is up 9-4 and blocks nothing in the 2nd round and a heart call is "the best he's got". His play is definitely defensible. All the right reasons are in place. But obviously this is hard to prove one way or the other.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1423
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:22 pm

jblowery wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:39 am
I agree - I wouldn't do this with a random partner. I order up extra light when the other team has 9 and that's it.
I actually agree with Richard and disagree with Edward. It's actually the opposite. If anything you should be more likely to pass a 2S semi-donate with an expert partner (becuz he won't pass biddable hands and he'll dealer donate himself) than with a random (who typically will pass biddable hands, and has no clue what dealer donating is).

Think of it this way. When you're up 9-4, and you block nothing in the 2nd round, the last thing you wanna see is the dealer pass. Who's more likely to pass? The random or the expert? The fact that the expert plays better "postflop" so to speak is of marginal value at best. You're up 9-4, you've got room to spare. Not letting this hand get to the 2nd round is more important than worrying about whether your P is gonna screw up the hand after the call.

Now I'm not saying you should be ordering in this spot whenever you block nothing in the 2nd round, but if it's "best you've got" AND you block nothing in the 2nd round AND your team is up 9-4, you should strongly consider calling for defensive purposes.

EG: You're team is up 9-4. Upcard is the (Card_10-D)

The action is on you in the 2S with:

(Card_Q-D) (Card_9-D) (Card_Q-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_10-S)

Not calling that hand would be criminal no matter what the nature of your P is, but more criminal if your P is a random. Diamonds is the best you've got, you block nothing. And you can afford a euchre. Do not let this hand get to the 2nd round.

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