Minimum Pickup for Dealer

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jblowery
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Minimum Pickup for Dealer

Unread post by jblowery » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 am

I think this has been discussed before. Just want to see what people think. I almost always pick up with rt+1 (except when opponents have 8 pts) or two low trump + 2 off-suite aces.

How about these more marginal hands? Remember this is from the S4 position. I know some of this may depend upon what else you have in your hand or score so feel free to explain any qualifications like that:

Left protected + nothing (I've passed on this - I do block next with that bower)
Left protected + singleton green ace (I'm neutral on this - typically passed but wonder if I should pick up)
Left protected + singleton next or doubleton green (I'm learning toward passing now)
Left protected + doubleton next or tripleton green (I'm typically passing at this pt)

Any other marginal pickups you can think of? Thanks.



RedDuke
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:45 am

First of all, are these things that you have in your hand before or after the pickup? If I've got a protected left, I'm pretty much always going to pick up and give myself the third trump no matter what else I've got in my hand. Three trump is pretty powerful as the dealer, especially with one of them being the left.

With that in mind, I'm assuming that I would have the protected left after I picked up, so I've got the jack and I'm picking up some low trump.
Left protected + nothing
Probably pass. I block next and hopefully my partner has something decent in reverse next. The big risk here is something like a reverse next loner attempt from first seat but most average players don't try that. If I'm up against Wes or someone like that that is super aggressive, I might call this.

Left protected + singleton green ace
This is a tough one. I still block next with that bauer and my singleton ace makes a loner attempt by either opponent much harder to succeed no matter what suit its in. At the same time, I've probably got two tricks. I'd probably pick up here unless I know that my partner is a really good player that would call reverse next and try to go alone.

Left protected + singleton next AND doubleton green
Probably pass. This is okay for defense against pretty much anything so you can hold the maker at one point.

Left protected + doubleton next or tripleton green
I'm going to pick up at a neutral score. There's too much risk that first seat will cross the river and declare a trump suit into my void if I've got the next doubleton. I might pass if I've got the green tripleton though. I've got the next call blocked with that jack and if they cross the river with a green call, there's probably a 30-35% chance that it'll be the one that I've got the tripleton in. I honestly don't know that it's worth chancing it though. I have passed here, but I'll usually call.

jblowery
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Unread post by jblowery » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:30 am

Thanks. Yes, these would all be after picking up

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1423
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:53 am

jblowery wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 am
I think this has been discussed before. Just want to see what people think. I almost always pick up with rt+1 (except when opponents have 8 pts) or two low trump + 2 off-suite aces.
I don't like this. R+1 is a +EV call as the dealer. A marginal +EV call, like 3 suited 3 low trump + no off ace hands. +EV hands should not be passed no matter what the score is. Don't pass this hand just cuz your opponents are at 8.
If you have all suits blocked that's a different story. Now passing is defensible, but otherwise don't. Keep fighting and try to score another point.
jblowery wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 am
How about these more marginal hands? Remember this is from the S4 position. I know some of this may depend upon what else you have in your hand or score so feel free to explain any qualifications like that:

Left protected + nothing (I've passed on this - I do block next with that bower)
Since you made the "go under" thread (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=329) I'll try to spice up my answers taking that variation into account.

L+1+nothing is a pass for me generally but if my team is at 9-9 and I suspect my P is an amateur player who doesn't realize he needs to loosen up his calling range in that spot, I'm calling this up and hoping for the best. If my P is an expert we have no choice but to pass cuz calling is then close to suicide given how weak my P's range will now be after he passes.

If my P goes under, I would always call with L+1+nothing at any score if I only block 1 out of 3 2nd rnd suits and at 9-9 I'm calling if I block 2 out of 3. Your P's range is now stronger and the theoretical cost of passing is higher when you only block 1 out of 3 suits which means the theoretical cost of a euchre is significantly lower, so it's worth gambling here in my estimation. The only scores where I'm not confident in this play is when we are up 9-8 and tied 8-8. I still do it tho but that may be too loose idk. If I block 2 out of 3 second rd suits then I pass for sure at those scores.
jblowery wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 am
Left protected + singleton green ace (I'm neutral on this - typically passed but wonder if I should pick up)
If one of my opponents go under I pass this. I don't care how many suits I block or not. It's too much of a suicide mission after that action. It feels like you go set almost every time. If no one goes under L+1+a singleton green ace is a standard +EV call if you only block 1 out 3 suits. I tend to pass if I block 2 out of 3 but I'm not sure about this. If you have a big lead then you can call with this hand even if you block 2 out of 3. It's ok to be paranoid with big leads. Again tho, not when your opponents go under. Then the risk is not worth it. I suppose I would call with this hand even if one of my opponents went under IF I only blocked 1 out of 3 and I had a big lead, but blocking 2 out of 3 I'm passing.
jblowery wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 am
Left protected + singleton next or doubleton green (I'm learning toward passing now)
The is a standard +EV call if you only block 1 out of 3 suits. Same exact caveats as above tho.
jblowery wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 am
Left protected + doubleton next or tripleton green (I'm typically passing at this pt)
Left protected + doubleton next is a pass for me regardless of how many suits I have blocked or not. But just keep in mind if your P goes under this changes from a standard pass to an easy call when you only block 1 out of 3. And also at 9-9 with an amateur P--which really means the vast majority of Ps--you should call imo.

Left protected+tripleton green ace is a pass for me. You block 2 out of 3 remaining suits. That's pretty good defense. No need to gamble here. At 9-9 with an amateur P I call tho. I'm not sure what to do in other scenarios where our P goes under tho. We may have enough defense to make calling not worth it but man it's awfully tempting. With a nice lead I'd go for it then. And to be clear, at 9-9, if your P goes under this is a must call.

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