Was I right to play 2nd hand low in this circumstance?

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SardineBreath
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:02 pm

Was I right to play 2nd hand low in this circumstance?

Post by SardineBreath » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:46 pm

Score was 7-7 in an 8 point game. My partner, the dealer, ordered up the 10 of hearts to himself. On the 1st trick, 1st seat led the queen of clubs. I was void in clubs, and held both the 9 and king of hearts. I chose to play 2nd hand low and I sloughed a useless queen of spades, thereby voiding myself in this suit. My partner was miffed that I didn’t trump the trick with my 9 of hearts; hence my question… “Was I right to play 2nd hand low on that 1st trick – in this instance?”



Wes (aka the legend)
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:34 pm

With two trump I would not play off in this spot. Typically, playing off in spots like this can be defensible when (1) you don't have a safe send-back, and (2) you can void yourself in another suit. Well you have (2) covered but crucially (1) doesn't apply to you since you DO have a safe send-back because you have two trump. So in this spot, your best move is to trump high to minimize your chances of being over-trumped and send low, i.e. trump the Qc when your Kh and then send the 9h to likely give control of the hand to your partner, the maker.

SardineBreath
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:02 pm

Post by SardineBreath » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:23 pm

I can see trumping on that first trick, but I have a hard time with the idea of leading trump on the next trick, seeing that my partner HAD to order up at this score - it's possible he has very few trump. I can't see leading trump and possibly depleting him of what could be necessary trump. I'd be more inclined to lead back the queen of spades...hopefully leading into my partner's ace OR that he could trump the suit. Would be interested in your thoughts...

Play2Win
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Post by Play2Win » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:43 am

I agree that 2nd low was the correct play. I am assuming you had nothing substantial to lead back. Had you an off-suit ace then I would have trumped in and led the ace back. This will either take a trick or remove a trump. Trumping the first trick and leading trump back without giving thought to the score is often a recipe for disaster.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:30 am

SardineBreath wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:23 pm
I can see trumping on that first trick, but I have a hard time with the idea of leading trump on the next trick, seeing that my partner HAD to order up at this score - it's possible he has very few trump. I can't see leading trump and possibly depleting him of what could be necessary trump. I'd be more inclined to lead back the queen of spades...hopefully leading into my partner's ace OR that he could trump the suit. Would be interested in your thoughts...
I never played euchre with this dynamic at play before, so my post probably doesn't apply. I think the convention that the dealer must order up at game point is absurd.

irishwolf
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:37 am

To Sardine ...

I want to weigh in on this discussion to your 2nd Hand Low and 2nd Hand Low in general because it is often abused concept.

First to you statement, you mentioned you were void to the club lead and held 9h Kh and sloughed a Qs. What were your other two cards. If you had another spade you are not creating a void - clearly should have trumped. If you did not have a spade then you had two diamonds (what were they?). If you were creating a void in spades and one of your diamonds was an ace then sloughing the Qs is acceptable but not the best play. Also, you did not say what level of skill your partner had, and risky or conservative. It also is important.

IMO that you should have trumped if you held another spade - and trump high because 1st seat might be leading from three clubs. Knowing your opponent would be helpful. ALWAYS, if in doubt get your trick. Suppose you trumped and your partner had the AC - if he has two clubs he still has the ace for a later play.

You here by not trumping in general are obstructing, stealing the 'CAPTAINCY' of your partnership. Here, I would trust my partner, I would trump high, Kh, then lead him trump, 9h. Get the hell out of the way. Even if you had the AD or AS, trump should be led before off suit aces.

2nd hand low should mainly be used on 1st round and when 2nd seat orders the dealer to create a void (not when you have a doubleton). One has to play by NOT fooling your partner. Win your trick. If your partner only has for example JH + 9H with off suit ace, you are of great help to win your trick and lead to his JH. Even if he does not have the right, you have to pull the opponents trump. Trust your partner, especially if later you trump and have nothing to lead back - off suit ace. later in the hand. Save you doubleton off suit it may come in handy later in the hand.

Get Your Trick!

That's my advise and I am sticking to it!

Irishwolf

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