Order, Donate or Pass from R1S4?

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Richardb02
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Order, Donate or Pass from R1S4?

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:33 pm

OE Monday night game
Would you as East, R1S4, order, donate or pass? https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

Please play out the hand. There was a very unexpected card distribution!

Image



jspectre
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Unread post by jspectre » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:43 pm

Automatic call for me with nothing blocked in 2/3 of the remaining suits. However, I would not lead the right after using the small trump, if I lead into the oppositions A it's mostly likely a euchre, and I'd rather see if my p is void in clubs or can pick up a trick some other way, I may be stripping him of his only trump by leading the right. I would lead the K after taking the first trick because I already have 3 clubs, so I assume this is the correct approach, but I'm not sure about that. I think that East simply got lucky in this situation.

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:26 pm

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jspectre wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:43 pm
Automatic call for me with nothing blocked in 2/3 of the remaining suits. However, I would not lead the right after using the small trump, if I lead into the oppositions A it's mostly likely a euchre, and I'd rather see if my p is void in clubs or can pick up a trick some other way, I may be stripping him of his only trump by leading the right. I would lead the K after taking the first trick because I already have 3 clubs, so I assume this is the correct approach, but I'm not sure about that. I think that East simply got lucky in this situation.

I won’t argue against a Kc lead in R2. It is too close to call IMO. The lead of the Right draws opponents trumps as well as partner’s trump(s). It has the benefit of increasing partner’s probability that his off suit Ace would take the 3rd trick.

Another interesting play is East, S4 ducking. I would duck if South, S1 would take the R1 trick. I would have played as shown with North, S3 taking the trick.

jspectre
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Unread post by jspectre » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:39 pm

I am curious whether leading the right is correct here or not, it's simply not a play I'm usually inclined to make, because I'm completely giving up control of how the hand plays out after I lead the K. However, this may just be an illusion of control, because there's nothing I can really do here except hope my p can get a trick with trump or an A, and I could also get trapped with a well timed trump lead from my opponents if I hold onto the right for too long. Is it a toss up whether to bet on your partner winning a trick with trump or an off A, is one play just better than the other?

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:47 am

Richardb02 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:33 pm
OE Monday night game
Would you as East, R1S4, order, donate or pass? https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

Please play out the hand. There was a very unexpected card distribution!
R+1+two voids is a must order. Without an off Ace to promote the dealer should not lead the Right on the 2nd trick. Lead our offsuit and hope your P can take a trick somewhere. Funny hand tho. Dealer got really lucky.

That said, there is an exception to the "Don't lead the right in this spot without an off ace to promote". IF your P has a chance to trump the first trick but doesn't implying that he is out of trump, then the maker should lead the Right bower on the 2nd trick even with no off ace to promote. Why? Becuz when your P indicates he has no trump this means trump is more heavy in the enemy. And now it's critical you lead the right for 2 reasons:

1) Leading the Right takes out two of your enemy's trump which is exactly what you need to do when your opponent's distribution is more heavy in trump.

2) Your team is probably only escaping a euchre if your P has an offsuit Ace. Leading the Right and taking out two of your opponent's trump in 1 lead makes that off ace more likely to walk.

Worth noting: Say your P is an expert and he plays off on the first lead. When an expert plays off in this spot there are only two possibilities. 1) he has no trump and 2) he has a guarded Left. Notice in either case the correct lead for the maker is to lead that Right.

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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:45 pm

East made the correct call when picking up the jack of hearts. Not doing so would be a message to his partner in West that he was void in hearts. It’s hard for anyone to play correctly when given bad information by their partner.

After taking the first trick, the maker (east) will hold the second trick in their hand. When possible, as the maker, I like to have a way back into the hand. In this case, using the right. IMO leading the jack of clubs would be best. Here you’re hoping for one of two things. Your partner takes the jack with a trump or you set up your king as boss.

Strange distribution of cards for sure. With this hand and at this score, a pass may give your opponents an opportunity for a second round lone call.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:00 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:33 pm
OE Monday night game
Would you as East, R1S4, order, donate or pass? https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

Please play out the hand. There was a very unexpected card distribution!



Dealer being seat 4, made the right call with the pick up. However, the lead back of the right with out an ace in my opinion is the wrong move. Especially when they have only one suit left and not ab ace to go with it. Lead the jack of clubs and see if your partner can help. If not then you can still play off untill he takes one.

Tbolt65
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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:30 pm

Interestingly, almost the same exact same hand came up recently.

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:25 pm

Dlan wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:30 pm
Interestingly, almost the same exact same hand came up recently.

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D
Yep. Perfectly played by South. This is also why any bot simulation on the effectiveness of "R+1+nothing" will never look as good as it should expectation-wise becuz the key to maximizing the value of this hand is giving your P ample opportunity to chip in.

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:50 pm

Dlan wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:30 pm
Interestingly, almost the same exact same hand came up recently.

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D
Great example. The correct off suit lead gave his partner the chance to take a trick with his Singleton trump.

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:21 pm

OE 12/14/20 another R1S4 edge order

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

Similar hand, different results!

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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:31 am

It's interesting to see how different hands play out.

South made the correct call here. Passing could mean a second-round lone call in hearts or clubs by the opponents.

Especially on thin calls, one is looking for help from their partner. On this hand, north had nothing to offer.

If you look back through hands where euchre resulted, assuming everyone played correctly, they are likely to be hands where the partner could offer no assistance.

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