Weekly games 11/31 Hand 1, the 4th trick

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Dlan
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Weekly games 11/31 Hand 1, the 4th trick

Unread post by Dlan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:58 am

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North, having just taken the last trick, has to decide which card they should lead. The ace or the trump 9. What would you do?

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Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:04 pm

North, having just taken the last trick, has to decide which card they should lead. The ace or the trump 9. What would you do?
Given that the dealer called trump and the enemy already has 2 tricks in, it is absolutely critical that North, the dealers' P, lead trump.

There's actually another aspect of this hand I wanna talk about. After taking the first 2 tricks on defense, what should West (S1) lead between these three cards:

(Card_J-D) (Card_K-D) (Card_Q-C)

First there's no reason to lead trump in this spot so that rules out the (Card_J-D)

So now it's between the (Card_K-D) and the (Card_Q-C)

This is a very tough problem and arguably a team problem, not just a S1 problem. S1 having the Left normally means he should generally be inclined to play a suit already played, hoping his P is void and can trump high enough to force out the right for the euchre. This general logic would lead S1 to leading the (Card_Q-C)

But here's the problem. I was actually the player in East and took the first trick by trumping the spade lead. Now with no off aces to play, I'm actually gonna lead my longest suit hoping to create a situation where the Maker can get overtrumped. So when I lead a club in that spot, I'm very likely to have another one. The ensuing action also backs up that general read. After the maker showed void in clubs by wisely throwing off my 9C lead with the TD, and S1 takes the trick with the AC and S2 follows suit with the JC, there are still 2 clubs left in the wild, the Kc & the Tc. Given my propensity to lead long in that spot, I am very likely to have at least one of those clubs. S1 would only know this if he were deeply familiar with my play.

And here's the other thing, clubs is the only suit we KNOW the dealer, the maker, is void in. The Maker followed suit on the opening Spade lead, and showed void in clubs when he threw off a diamond. Given that the dealer, the maker already had a chance to create a void when he ordered up there is a decent chance he has either another spade or another diamond. Well S1 doesn't have any spades so that's irrelevant, but S1 does have a diamond to lead. Given that S3 probably has another club and the dealer could have another diamond, S1 leading a diamond hoping to create a cheap trick situation for S3 (I.E. S3 trumps in and the maker sadly has to follow suit) or a situation where S3 is void in diamonds and trumps high enough to force out the Right, is probably the best and only chance for East-West to pull off the euchre in this situation.

That's a lot to process tho in the heat of battle and S1 HAS to know how S3 plays. But a strong euchre team with lots of chemistry could pull this off imo.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:23 pm

Lead trump. No hand analysis here from me.

Tbolt65
Edward

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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:40 pm

Tbolt65 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:23 pm
Lead trump. No hand analysis here from me.

Tbolt65
Edward
Wat. S1's team got the first 2 tricks on defense and the maker has yet to burn a trump. S1 is also in perfect euchre position holding the Left behind the maker. The last thing in the world we should wanna do here is lead trump. S1's only goal here should be figuring out which offsuit lead is most likely to find his partner's void should he have one becuz if his partner is void and has the KH it's game over for the Maker's team. Also, this approach opens up two other ways to get the euchre:

1) S2 trumps in on S1's offsuit lead but doesn't have another trump to lead back to the maker and then proceeds to lead a suit S1 is void in. With the Left behind the maker S1 is guaranteed the euchre.

2) S1 leads a diamond, S2 follows suit or is void but has no trump, and S3 has the boss diamond and the Maker also has a diamond and has to follow suit.

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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:36 pm

With the Ace singleton and 9 of trump left. He better be leading the trump here.

You even say the same thing.

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Edward

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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:43 pm

Tbolt65 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:36 pm
With the Ace singleton and 9 of trump left. He better be leading the trump here.

You even say the same thing.

Tbolt65
Edward
Oh yeah of course. Oops I misunderstood. I was talking about S1's decision point after after his team won the first 2 tricks.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:38 pm

Ok, gotcha. Let me address that then. I agree trump is the worst lead here. Clubs is the 2nd worst lead. Which lead us with the diamonds. We lead diamonds back because. A. Dealer is void in clubs. 3 clubs have been accounted for. The hand in question has one club. His partner leading low is likely to have one more club. So if you wish to catch the opponents in the crossfire. Diamonds is your only hope. The dealer already showed one low 10 of diamond. He is likely to have one more since he didnt go alone. When I see the dealer throw off early with a low suit. Where we already are ping ponging them and we are in the lead. Generally our only hope here is that dealer has another diamond and your partner can either trump in, or take with an Ace.


Tbolt65
Edward

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