Would this be an appropriate score to donate?

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XaviRonaldo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:41 am

Would this be an appropriate score to donate?

Unread post by XaviRonaldo » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:07 am

So in a recent game we were ahead 9-2 and I was in 3rd seat and they turned up (Card_J-H) . My partner was taking ages to make their decision so I thought 'they're thinking about ordering it up they must have it stopped'. Nope they held the (Card_J-D) bare and we got lonered on.

Now, seeing as a loner puts the opponents within range of winning with another loner would this have been an appropriate score for us to donate? I certainly think so.

I'd rather be ahead 9-4 when it might have been 9-3 than only be ahead 9-6 when we could've kept it to 9-4.

I don't remember the exact hand though and maybe my partner felt they had a good chance of a winning call if they passed. IMO that can be the only reasoning for not blocking that loner. If you have nothing else worth calling surely you should order it up.

Is my reasoning correct here?



Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1189
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:02 pm

XaviRonaldo wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:07 am
So in a recent game we were ahead 9-2 and I was in 3rd seat and they turned up (Card_J-H) . My partner was taking ages to make their decision so I thought 'they're thinking about ordering it up they must have it stopped'. Nope they held the (Card_J-D) bare and we got lonered on.

Now, seeing as a loner puts the opponents within range of winning with another loner would this have been an appropriate score for us to donate? I certainly think so.

I'd rather be ahead 9-4 when it might have been 9-3 than only be ahead 9-6 when we could've kept it to 9-4.
When my team is up 9-2 and the Jack is up I will donate with the following hand configurations:

1) No trump, no off aces (will donate any time my opponent has 7 pts or less)
2) No trump + 1 off ace (will donate any time my opponent has 6 pts or less)
3) 1 trump + no off aces (will donate any time my opponent has 6 pts or less)
4) 1 trump + 1 off ace (will donate any time my opponent has 6 pts or less)
5) 2 low trump (Kx or lower) + no off aces (this is more of a grey area hand for me but certainly will donate up 9-2)

I think that covers it. Here are the hands I will NOT donate with vs a Jack at any score except up 9-6/9-7:

1) Any time I have 2 or more off aces
2) If I have 2 low trump and an off ace I'll tend to gamble.
3) If I have Ax in trump (Now only JJX in trump can get me)
4) Grey area hand for me: If I have an unguarded Left + an off ace, especially a singleton green Ace, but up 9-2 I'm donating.
XaviRonaldo wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:07 am
I don't remember the exact hand though and maybe my partner felt they had a good chance of a winning call if they passed. IMO that can be the only reasoning for not blocking that loner. If you have nothing else worth calling surely you should order it up.

Is my reasoning correct here?
I would say the last part of reasoning is not correct strictly speaking. I think vs specifically a Jack upcard we should forget about what kind of hand we have in the 2nd round. A Jack upcard is a special situation in itself, kinda like an emergency situation where we need to focus on the here and now vs thinking about what kind of hand we could have in the 2nd round. Vs other more innocuous upcards, what I have in the 2nd round does play a roll in my donating decision matrix.

For example, say my team is up 2-0, and the dealer upcard is the (Card_9-D)

And I'm in S1 with:

(Card_10-D) (Card_10-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_10-S) (Card_9-H)

I'm now donating becuz not only does our hand suck but we also have no where to go in the 2nd round even if the dealer should pass.

Change our hand just a little to this:

(Card_10-D) (Card_10-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_9-S)

And I wouldn't donate vs the 9D. Now we can get lucky and stop a loner with the AC and if the dealer passes we're not in that bad of shape with a Next call with 2 trump + an off ace. In both these examples I'm donating vs a Jack upcard.

Tbolt65
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:30 pm

My line of play with anyone is you assume they play optimally until proven otherwise. If you had no prior indication up until this point in the game. I am fine with you passing. Now its 9 to 6 and you know for sure. Sometimes earlier play and earlier play calling can give you an inkling. Which could help at times.


With out further info. I am fine with the non d from 3rd seat.

Tbolt65
Edward

RedDuke
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:28 pm

Against a jack upcard, I'm donating at 9-2 unless I've got something that has better than a 75% chance of getting at least one trick. That means with hands like the following, I will not donate:

1. Left+1 Trump, remainder can be anything.
2. Left + 2 Green Aces, remainder can be anything.
3. 3 Trump, remainder can be anything.
4. Left + 1 Green Ace is iffy. It has an okay chance of stopping a loner and I might risk not donating if I get a sense that my enemy doesn't declare loners on less-than-perfect hands. Against an expert opponent, I'll probably donate.

Holding pretty much anything else, I'm going to donate.

In this case, it doesn't really matter what I have in the second round. I have next deal and I've got a 70%+ chance to win the game. That alone should be a pretty big incentive to donate.

Now, if the upcard was a queen or something, I'd be a lot less likely to donate unless I was holding total trash.

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