Ordered Up

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jblowery
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Ordered Up

Unread post by jblowery » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:16 am

This has happened a couple times to me recently. I'm the dealer and my partner orders up diamonds. I'm now holding (Card_10-D) (Card_Q-C) (Card_K-C) (Card_10-H) (Card_K-H). Crap hand.

1st trick s1 leads low heart and s3 takes it with (Card_A-H) 2nd trick s3 leads (Card_A-C) and takes that trick. Now we're down 2-0. 3rd trick s3 leads my void suit, spades. Let's say its the (Card_Q-S). Do you trump it? The problem is that if you do you now have to lead a previously led suite through your partner.
Last edited by jblowery on Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.



RedDuke
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Unread post by RedDuke » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:56 am

You have last play so yes, you trump it. That will make it 2-1.

Your partner probably has two diamonds (trump) as his remaining cards and unless he's a complete moron, one of them is going to be a bower, probably the right. Go ahead and lead a trick that was already led. What'll happen is that either first seat will trump it and then your partner will overtrump, or first seat will not have a void and your partner will take it with his lowest trump (which is hopefully big enough that third seat can't overtrump it) and then will lead back the right bower for the final trick.

If you don't trump in then you're euchred so...

jblowery
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Unread post by jblowery » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:53 am

No I don't have last play. I'm 2nd. Sorry I screwed up. Revised post up above. Problem is my partner getting overtrumped when I lead an old suite for the 4th trick.

Bottom line is that my partner ordered, were down 2-0 (so we need next 3,), I've got the 2nd play and opponents lead my one void suite. I can trump it but then I have to give opponents an end play on a suite that was already led. Seems better to let my p take it but then my trump card is wasted and he has to take last 3 by himself. Were in a bad spot either way.

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LeftyK
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Location: North Carolina

Unread post by LeftyK » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:23 pm

P needs to step up and take the last three. your ten is no good at this point. How did it turn out? Did your P have JJK OR JJ and the doubleton winner of one of the suits already played?

jblowery
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Unread post by jblowery » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:28 am

It's happened twice. I let it go both times. The 1st time it worked out but 2nd time it didn't because my p ordered me up with just the two red Jack's. As u can imagine, he was pissed and didn't understand why i let it go.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:03 pm

I can certainly appreciate this dilemma but I'm trumping in and double leading the suit I think S3 is most likely to still have. If our P has 3 trump, then us trumping in now can't hurt our team's situation as our P will not be overtrumping us. If our P only has 2 trump, then there's a very good chance our team is screwed no matter what line we take since there's a great chance one of our villains has 2 trump. So might as well trump in hoping our P has both bowers or hoping our P's 2nd highest trump is higher than S3's highest trump--basically hope our P has a hand like (Card_J-D) (Card_A-D) or (Card_J-D) (Card_K-D) and escapes the squeeze when S3 doesn't have a high enough trump to overtrump.

Richardb02
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Unread post by Richardb02 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:52 pm

I agree with Wes. As usual I would explain it differently and hopefully more simply.

S2 as maker is responsible for 2 tricks. You in S4 are responsible for 1. So, with a weak hand, you need to take your 1 trick as soon as you can. You then need to rely on the strength of the Maker’s hand.

Then you must make a lead playing to Maker’s strength. Most of the time, that would mean leading reverse next, Kc. You are hoping that S3 has another club, based on there being 6 clubs available for play vs. only 5 next cards available in hearts.

Wes’ nuance, ,“double leading the suit [that] I think S3 is most likely to still have,” is perfectly correct, based on an advanced player, like Wes, spotting an adverse card distribution. That is above my skill level. Wes remembers every card that is played. I limit my card counting to number of trump played, specific trump cards and Aces played by the Maker. I confess that I struggle with keeping my limited “card counting,” in a game situation.

So my MO, is to play within my Casual + skill level. I would trump the 3rd trick and then lead reverse next, Kc, based on a higher probability that S3 has a club than a heart.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:29 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:03 pm
I can certainly appreciate this dilemma but I'm trumping in and double leading the suit I think S3 is most likely to still have. If our P has 3 trump, then us trumping in now can't hurt our team's situation as our P will now be overtrumping us. If our P only has 2 trump, then there's a very good chance our team is screwed no matter what line we take since there's a great chance one of our villains has 2 trump. So might as well trump in hoping our P has both bowers or hoping our P's 2nd highest trump is higher than S3's highest trump--basically hope our P has a hand like (Card_J-D) (Card_A-D) or (Card_J-D) (Card_K-D) and escapes the squeeze when S3 doesn't have a high enough trump to overtrump.
FMP, meant to say "as our P will now be overtrumping us", not "as our P will not be overtrumping us".

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