Question: Would you order up in this circumstance?

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SardineBreath
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:02 pm

Question: Would you order up in this circumstance?

Post by SardineBreath » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Question: Would you order up in this circumstance? My partner was the dealer. The score was 3-3 in an 8 point game. Upcard was the 10 of spades. I was sitting in 2nd seat. I had the 9 and jack of spades, was 4 suited, and had no side aces.



Play2Win
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Post by Play2Win » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:26 pm

There are unknowns that would influence my decision. One being the skill level of my partner. With a weak partner, I’d think about passing. One the other hand, with an experienced partner, I’d order. You are counting on your partner to take two tricks. It is early in the game. You have time to make it up if things go south.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:40 pm

It is critically important you order up with this marginal hand. The right+1 with nothing else but junk still has a great chance of making a point from the 2 seat given that your partner gets to pick up that extra trump card, but that's not the only reason, and probably not the biggest reason this hand is a MUST call. If you pass in the first round and your partner passes, you only block 1 out of the 3 remaining suits in the 2nd round. This means your team is at a decent risk of falling victim to a 2nd round 4 point loner sweep. Don't let this possibility happen. With barely any defense in the 2nd round, it's best to play offense in the first round and order your partner up.

RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:34 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:40 pm
It is critically important you order up with this marginal hand. The right+1 with nothing else but junk still has a great chance of making a point from the 2 seat given that your partner gets to pick up that extra trump card, but that's not the only reason, and probably not the biggest reason this hand is a MUST call. If you pass in the first round and your partner passes, you only block 1 out of the 3 remaining suits in the 2nd round. This means your team is at a decent risk of falling victim to a 2nd round 4 point loner sweep. Don't let this possibility happen. With barely any defense in the 2nd round, it's best to play offense in the first round and order your partner up.
To be fair, it's next that he has blocked, which is the most likely loner call.

I always thought that unless you have a very timid partner, you should not order up from second seat unless you have at least three trump. The reason for this is that you don't want to stop your partner from picking up and going alone.

You're absolutely going to have to depend on your partner for two tricks as you only have one in your hand. You're also only ordering up a 10... it's not like you're giving your partner the Ace. The ten is no guarantee that they'll have anything in their hand.

Unless you have a very timid partner, I wouldn't order up but instead would probably hesitate or try to give them some other sign that you could help with the hand before passing. Thus, leaving it up them whether or not to try it. If you've got one of those partners that will pick up if they've got anything at all in their hand, I absolutely wouldn't pick up.

Wes does make a good point that you've only got a loner in next stopped. If your partner doesn't pick up though, there's a good chance that they have a strong hand in red and thus could quite likely stop a loner in reverse next.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:13 am

RedDuke wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:34 pm
To be fair, it's next that he has blocked, which is the most likely loner call.
Moot point even if true. Bottom line is we have no where to go in the 2nd round offensively, and defensively we only block 1 out of the 3 remaining suits. And if we call in the first round we have a pretty good chance to make it with Right+1 and also ordering up another trump to our partner.
RedDuke wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:34 pm
I always thought that unless you have a very timid partner, you should not order up from second seat unless you have at least three trump. The reason for this is that you don't want to stop your partner from picking up and going alone.
You were taught wrong. One thing people have to understand is that almost everything we were taught about euchre were "rules of thumb" designed for beginners. This game is way more complicated with tons of exceptions to whatever rule of thumbs your parents or grandparents taught you. This example is one of them. There isn't a top player in the world who isn't ordering up Right+1 in this precarious spot becuz top players know all the exceptions.
RedDuke wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:34 pm
You're absolutely going to have to depend on your partner for two tricks as you only have one in your hand. You're also only ordering up a 10... it's not like you're giving your partner the Ace. The ten is no guarantee that they'll have anything in their hand.
None of what you said is relevant becuz you're assuming we have a better alternative to calling. We don't. Passing in this situation is way more risky than calling.
RedDuke wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:34 pm
Unless you have a very timid partner, I wouldn't order up but instead would probably hesitate or try to give them some other sign that you could help with the hand before passing. Thus, leaving it up them whether or not to try it. If you've got one of those partners that will pick up if they've got anything at all in their hand, I absolutely wouldn't pick up.
Hesitating on purpose is blatantly cheating. We don't need to cheat to beat people. Just play the hand correctly. Passing in the first round with biddable hands when you have no where to go in the 2nd round and little defense is not a winning strategy. Period.

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