Call or Pass

Ask questions, discuss and debate your strategies, euchre polls and more
Post Reply
RedDuke
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Call or Pass

Unread post by RedDuke » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:58 pm

This happened in a game I played earlier today.

The score was 9-9. I'm in first seat with:

(Card_J-H) (Card_Q-H) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-S) (Card_J-C)

Upcard is (Card_A-H) .

Do you call here?

I can definitely count on one trick here but I'm also ordering a pretty strong trump up to the dealer. Maybe we can do three depending on what my partner has, but I can also see a lot of danger here if either opponent is strong in red (or has a void in next, which is probable).

I'm also in a decent spot to euchre the opponent - but my hand isn't strong enough to count on without my partner's help. If I was ordering up something like the (Card_9-H) it's a no-brainer call, but unless my partner has a guarded left, I could be in some trouble ordering up such a strong card to the dealer. With a score of 9-9, you can't take chances.

If I pass, I've got a decent next call here or could even euchre pretty much anything from either opponent. This is an STD game, so we can't redeal.

What would you guys do here? Call or take your chances on a pass?



Richardb02
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:50 am

RedDuke wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:58 pm
This happened in a game I played earlier today.

The score was 9-9. I'm in first seat with:

(Card_J-H) (Card_Q-H) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-S) (Card_J-C)

Upcard is (Card_A-H) .

What would you guys do here? Call or take your chances on a pass?
I will go through my BPS analysis, which is my approach. Then, please let me explain my major take always. I will then, address your questions specifically.

0.25 R1S1
1.00 Jh (Right)
0.50 Qh
0.25 R+1
0.50 Ad, Singleton Black Ace
2.50 Subtotal
-.25 Net value of Up Card Ah (0.50 - 0.25 value of 9h, which is already included in the BPS values)
2.25 Net value, >2.00 minimum, but
-.25 Opponents have 9 points (but debatable because score is 9-9)
2.00 Edge hand, BPS is not perfect, player discretion is a part of BPS. I am always open to adjusting 0.25 points, with an edge hand and 0.50 & even 0.75, In appropriate situations. “Player discretion,” from my standpoint means to keep analyzing the finer points, ignored by BPS-Basic, and once you exhaust your analysis skills, go with your gut instinct (that combination of experience and intuition that cannot be defined). I actually have learned a new term, “Personal Brilliance!”

Continuing with the “keep analyzing” thought, almost always from S1, I analyze my R2 hand:
0.50 R2S1
0.75 R2S1 Next
0.75 Jh (Left)
0.50 Ad
2.50 vs. 2.25 R1 hand, so passing with the intent to order Next, if S4 passes, makes more sense based on BPS. I think that response passes the “sniff test” and looks reasonable, even without BPS. I also add, that in a tie situation, I would favor passing. S4 loses the Up Card advantage to break a tie.

The major takeaway, IMO, is that looking at the R2S1 hand is always part of the decision, when playing from S1. The 2nd, is that, once you analyze R2S1, you have eliminated 80% of the questions, raised in the post. Eliminating those types of questions, increases my speed of analysis, allowing application of BPS in live games.

An even more valuable 3rd point, because it applies to a majority of hands, is that it takes the same number of tricks to euchre your opponents, as it does to take 1 point! Furthermore, to euchre your opponent, is usually accomplished by you taking 2 tricks and Partner 1 trick. Once you have wrapped your mind, around that simplification, a R1S1 pass, in this scenario, has the same probability of euchring the opponent as an order has, to take 3 tricks. That high level concept eliminates About 80% of the questions.

To summarize, I pass with a 65% chance of euchring Opponents, if they order. If Opponents pass, I order Next, with a 70% expectation of taking 3 tricks, 1 point and the game.

[/color][/color]

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:42 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:58 pm
This happened in a game I played earlier today.

The score was 9-9. I'm in first seat with:

(Card_J-H) (Card_Q-H) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-S) (Card_J-C)

Upcard is (Card_A-H) .

Do you call here?
Never order up in the first round from S1--giving the dealer's team a void + a trump, when you have a better hand in the 2nd round. A heart call with just 2 trump + an off ace is very marginal from S1-R1 whereas you have a near automatic game winning point in black in the 2nd round. So pass in the first round, and if the dealer orders up play for the euchre. If the dealer passes, call black, send both bowers and then the AD to victory.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:42 pm
RedDuke wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:58 pm
This happened in a game I played earlier today.

The score was 9-9. I'm in first seat with:

(Card_J-H) (Card_Q-H) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-S) (Card_J-C)

Upcard is (Card_A-H) .

Do you call here?
Never order up in the first round from S1--giving the dealer's team a void + a trump, when you have a better hand in the 2nd round. A heart call with just 2 trump + an off ace is very marginal from S1-R1 whereas you have a near automatic game winning point in black in the 2nd round. So pass in the first round, and if the dealer orders up play for the euchre. If the dealer passes, call black, send both bowers and then the AD to victory.
Worthy of note, if your team has 8 points or less you should be going alone in black assuming you're playing normal euchre rules where S1 has the lead.

Post Reply