BPS Question

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knglenny
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

BPS Question

Unread post by knglenny » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:31 pm

Question on BPS system, lets say I have (Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) but want to call diamonds. does the (Card_A-H) count as .5 as I am the one holding the (Card_J-H) or do I still subtract .25 making the (Card_A-H) worth .25?



Richardb02
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:17 am

knglenny wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:31 pm
Question on BPS system, lets say I have (Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) but want to call diamonds. does the (Card_A-H) count as .5 as I am the one holding the (Card_J-H) or do I still subtract .25 making the (Card_A-H) worth .25?
For some reason I overlooked this post, so my response took longer than I intended.

Good question. I did not go into all the details on BPS post.

The key to understanding the answer, is that BPS evaluates Ace in Next (Black), differently than Ace in Reverse Next (Green).

Your Ah is in Next. I determined that a Singleton Black Ace would have a maximum value of 0.50, as opposed to a Singleton Green Ace having a value of 0.75. A 0.25 point advantage for the Singleton Green Ace makes a lot of sense. I also wanted to equalize the value of a Doubleton Green Ace and a Doubleton Black Ace (your example). So per BPS, as currently written, I would rate the Ah as 0.50, because BPS treats Doubleton Aces the same.

My approach is very debatable. Your logic is reasonable. Your logic is compelling. One less card in Next makes the Singleton Ace worth 0.25 points less than a Singleton Green Ace. So isn’t it logical that Doubleton Aces should be equally derated 0.25 per each additional card in that suit.

In conclusion, currently I rate your approach superior to my current BPS approach! De-rating a Doubleton Black Ace to 0.25, vs the current 0.50 makes good sense when evaluated as an isolated scenario. Let me ruminate and evaluate any unintended consequences of the change. I will change BPS as clear cut evidence is presented that there is a better way. I will continue this discussion. In the meantime, please use your concept and thank you for your insights.

Richardb02
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:31 pm

knglenny, I am going with your thinking. A Black Ace is definitely worth less than a Green Ace. 0.25 points in BPS quantification. Your recommendation adheres to that fact and simplifies the BPS. Mine was trying to account for subtle differences and made BPS more complicated. IMO, simpler is better.

So moving forward, 0.50 for a Singleton Black Ace and subtract 0.25 for each additional card in the Ace’s suit. So yes, a Tripleton Black Ace is worthless, when using the BPS Basic system. The only exception, I can envision is S1, RLAxx. A hand that rare, 1 out of 45K possibilities, 0.0022% probability, is not going to fit into any reasonably-usable BPS.

I will update the information in the BPS posts in the near future.

Let me summarize, that the reasons for my original guidance, were minimal, relative to the compelling case of “easy to identify” advantages to your recommendation. Thank you for your observation, posts and feedback. Consider joining us on WoCG at 850 PM ET, Monday nights.

knglenny
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

Unread post by knglenny » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:45 pm

Thanks for the response. To be honest, most of it went over my head, but I'm trying to force myself to play by the BPS system. Often this puts me in a position making calls I normally wouldn't (which is why I am here, to get better). So at the very least it's helping me learn how to play a variety of hands.

That said, I feel like I have a pretty good handle on the basic BPS, though I am still muddling through how to play different types of hands, trying to figure out what play worked because of luck or because it was the right play, haha.

I really appreciate the BPS system, it makes me feel more confident in my calls. Now I'm working on the skill of actually playing and the art of euchre after you have made a numerically based call.

Thanks again! I hope to make it to WoCG at some point, I hope its okay if I will be in way over my head!

Richardb02
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:30 pm

Get over to WoCG and play tonight! You will accelerate your learning. Wes & Don are patient, as long as you are patient. LOL

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