How to play these types of hands

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knglenny
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

How to play these types of hands

Unread post by knglenny » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:30 pm

first post, go easy on me

So I've played euchre for 25 years+ but only just now started to really try to up my game. It's funny, reading through things on here opened my eyes to "patterns" I was seeing before and never really exploited, I just knew what was most likely to be called based on my hand and the up card. Already I know my game is better.

I've been implementing the BPS system (or trying) and most types of calls I've pretty much figured out how to play, I'm still working on it. However, these types of hands i am at a loss on how to play and seem to go 50/50 on, meaning I shouldn't be playing them as I am losing points over the long haul. I wanted to see what the best way to play these hands are:

Players are equal and lets say its 0-0 as I don't make these calls late (unless opponent has 9)

Up card is (Card_K-H)

I'm dealer and my hand is (Card_9-H) (Card_K-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_10-D) (Card_A-S)

According to BPS I need 2.0 to call. So if I am doing this correctly:

R1S4 .5 (.5)
1 Void .25 (.75)
Trump .75 (1.5)
Green Ace .75 (2.25)
I've reached my 2.0 minimum.

I order up and discard the (Card_10-D) making my hand:
(Card_K-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_A-S) (Card_K-C) (Card_9-C)

Here are the potential scenarios I'm struggling with:
#1 I get lucky and Spades are led and my Ace holds up, what do I do next? I have been throwing my low club card as my partner passed on hearts so I'm assuming we won't win if I throw trump and I might rob them of the help I need, is this correct?

#2 Diamonds are led and I trump in. Do I come back with the Ace or through low club or burn my last trump on the unlikely scenario that my partner can take it. I've been coming back with my Ace, is this correct?

#3 My partner trumps in the first trick, leads back trump and I pray we can hang on

#4 Clubs are led, I throw low. Then if diamonds come back and I trump in, do I throw my trump to clear it out and hope my Ace plus (Card_K-C) (which is now boss) get led back? If Spades are led back and my ace holds do I through trump or come back with the boss club card knowing we probably lose but 1 or more trump will come out?

Thanks in advance for the help!



Richardb02
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:32 pm

knglenny wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:30 pm
first post, go easy on me

So I've played euchre for 25 years+ but only just now started to really try to up my game. It's funny, reading through things on here opened my eyes to "patterns" I was seeing before and never really exploited, I just knew what was most likely to be called based on my hand and the up card. Already I know my game is better.

I've been implementing the BPS system (or trying) and most types of calls I've pretty much figured out how to play, I'm still working on it. However, these types of hands i am at a loss on how to play and seem to go 50/50 on, meaning I shouldn't be playing them as I am losing points over the long haul. I wanted to see what the best way to play these hands are:

Players are equal and lets say its 0-0 as I don't make these calls late (unless opponent has 9)

Up card is (Card_K-H)

I'm dealer and my hand is (Card_9-H) (Card_K-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_10-D) (Card_A-S)

According to BPS I need 2.0 to call. So if I am doing this correctly:

R1S4 .5 (.5)
1 Void .25 (.75)
Trump .75 (1.5)
Green Ace .75 (2.25)
I've reached my 2.0 minimum.

I order up and discard the (Card_10-D) making my hand:
(Card_K-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_A-S) (Card_K-C) (Card_9-C)

Here are the potential scenarios I'm struggling with:
#1 I get lucky and Spades are led and my Ace holds up, what do I do next? I have been throwing my low club card as my partner passed on hearts so I'm assuming we won't win if I throw trump and I might rob them of the help I need, is this correct?

#2 Diamonds are led and I trump in. Do I come back with the Ace or through low club or burn my last trump on the unlikely scenario that my partner can take it. I've been coming back with my Ace, is this correct?

#3 My partner trumps in the first trick, leads back trump and I pray we can hang on

#4 Clubs are led, I throw low. Then if diamonds come back and I trump in, do I throw my trump to clear it out and hope my Ace plus (Card_K-C) (which is now boss) get led back? If Spades are led back and my ace holds do I through trump or come back with the boss club card knowing we probably lose but 1 or more trump will come out?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Great question, especially for a first post!

My first thought, is that you need to understand this hand is still marginal. By design, the minimum (2.00 for S4) gives you a 65% success rate! That means that you can expect to be euchred 35% of the time! That is 1 out of 3 hands! That is not comfortable, but it is the break even point.

You can adjust the 2.25 to approximately a 70% chance of success. I have simplified my analysis, to the conclusion that 3.75 points gives me a 95% chance of success. Simple interpolation 69.3%. (I use an approximation of 5% per 0.25 points, which yields my 70% opportunity). That still means being euchred more than 1 of 4 hands. Most people shrink at those results!



#1 I get lucky and Spades are led and my Ace holds up, what do I do next? I have been throwing my low club card as my partner passed on hearts so I'm assuming we won't win if I throw trump and I might rob them of the help I need, is this correct?
I agree throw the 9c. The bonus is that your Kc may become boss. My approach is The same as an S1 lead when opponents order. See OE lessons.
#2 Diamonds are led and I trump in. Do I come back with the Ace or through low club or burn my last trump on the unlikely scenario that my partner can take it. I've been coming back with my Ace, is this correct?
Again my approach is the same as an S1 lead when opponents order. Play your singleton Green Ace.
#3 My partner trumps in the first trick, leads back trump and I pray we can hang on
First, refer back to your 30% probability of being euchred. Then refocus, you still have the opportunity of taking 3 tricks.
#4 Clubs are led, I throw low. Then if diamonds come back and I trump in, do I throw my trump to clear it out and hope my Ace plus (Card_K-C) (which is now boss) get led back? If Spades are led back and my ace holds do I through trump or come back with the boss club card knowing we probably lose but 1 or more trump will come out?
Your logic is very reasonable to me For both questions. Keep it up.

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knglenny
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

Unread post by knglenny » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Thanks for the reply! It helps me to know I am on the right track.

I will start tracking these to see to I'm really at 2 out of 3 or I will adjust.

RedDuke
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:17 pm

#3 My partner trumps in the first trick, leads back trump and I pray we can hang on
If they lead back with something big, like the left, then throw your little trump. What you actually want to happen here is that the opponents throw the right, which promotes your king. If your partner leads a little trump, still play the nine. Hopefully you can strip the opponent of trump. Plus, if your partner is actually leading the left, either he has the right or he has the ace and he's hoping that one of the opponents takes out the left with their right.

This is one of those cases where you're better to be euchred than pass. With your hand, there's a pretty good chance that somebody has something killer and you don't want them to make a lone call. Better to be down by two than four.

Richardb02
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:06 pm

Great points RedDuke! I appreciate you helping our BC, B&C’s (Beginners and Casual players). Keep it up!

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