Weekly games 02/24 Hand #1

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Dlan
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Weekly games 02/24 Hand #1

Unread post by Dlan » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:47 pm

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Blocking is one of the least understood strategies in euchre.

While easy to see in this type of hand, many others are not. Is there a minimum standard for use?

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irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:46 pm

Are you sure it was not a misclick? lol

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:18 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:46 pm
Are you sure it was not a misclick? lol
I assumed you we're being a psychic brat that hand :)

I do believe Irishwolf will agree with me that donating down 6-1 vs a TS upcard, with two off aces to fall back on is not the right move.

At least I got my revenge!

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irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 pm

WRONG! Maybe teach you something about donating!

So why are you beating your chest and Puffing when playing against a Bot, who does not know when to assist, how to make trump or play his cards?

:lol: :lol:

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:28 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 pm
WRONG! Maybe teach you something about donating!
Yes I'd be very interested to hear your argument for donating in this spot.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:02 am

Looks like it was pretty damn effective to me.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:11 am

irishwolf wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 pm
So why are you beating your chest and Puffing when playing against a Bot, who does not know when to assist, how to make trump or play his cards?

:lol: :lol:
I was just playing around man. It was probably a dumb loner anyways when you consider that the Bot is probably passing R+1 in the first round, probably even R+1+an off ace, so a guarded Left will be in his range a lot more than it should, but the gambler in me didn't care.
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:02 am
Looks like it was pretty damn effective to me.
Meh, results oriented arguments don't do anything for me. I do strongly disagree with donating in that spot. I stand by my statement that "donating down 6-1 vs a TS upcard, with two off aces to fall back on is not the right move". But whatever, I know I donate in spots people don't agree with, and it's not like I have compelling arguments backing me up. I don't. But to me when you have 2 off aces, that in itself is pretty strong defense vs a loner. Donating is kindve a waste in that case. That said, up 9-7 or 9-6 I'm still donating even with two off aces, but it's not like I have proof that even that's correct, but I don't mess around at 9-6/9-7. At those scores unguarded = donate until future math/simulations dictate otherwise. Outside off those special cases, I'm not donating with 2 off aces even vs a Jack.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am

I don't like donating even when score is tied 6 to 6, putting you up 8 to whatever. I knew it was either that or the game is over, really! I don't like donating from 3rd seat either, unless I have an idiot partner. In that situation, I could care less about the Left guarded. Sometimes your senses says this is crazy but you MUST do it to live to the next hand. Intuition or some call gut feeling, I call it THE SIXTH DIMENSION OF EUCHRE! Some have some don't!

And you are Seriously wrong about the two ACES in that situation, look again! Look at it statistically but I didn't use it as my decision maker.

There are 3 other hearts to accompany the AH and 2 remaining somewhere. With 2 there is 51% S4 has none. And if he had one, 42% and he would have discarded most likely having one heart. That leaves 6.5% he has two. Such low odds leaves the AH almost useless.

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:19 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am
I don't like donating even when score is tied 6 to 6, putting you up 8 to whatever.
Yeah I can't stand donating at that score, but I will do it vs a Jack upcard if I have no trump and 1 off ace or less and I'll also do it with 1 trump+no aces. With 1 trump + an off ace I'm frankly not sure what's best at 6-6 vs a Jack. I can go either way. I'll also donate at 6-6 if I have no trump no aces vs an Ace upcard. And I suppose anytime I have no trump no aces and no 2nd round hand, donating becomes at least defensible at 6-6 vs any upcard.
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am
I knew it was either that or the game is over, really!

Come on man. You could not know that. It was a bad donate. You got lucky. End of story.
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am
I don't like donating from 3rd seat either, unless I have an idiot partner.

I don't care about the donating from 3rd part. Donating from 3rd has to be a part of anyone's game becuz 99% of all euchre players do not donate, so odds are you'll have a partner that wont, and you'll have to pick up some of the slack yourself. I would only add that theoretically speaking, even with a P that doesn't donate, one's donate range should be a tad tighter from 3rd given that they are only blocking 1 person, whereas a standard S1 donate is blocking 2 people (S2 and S4), and sometimes, but rarely, a S1 donate blocks 3 people (S2 and S4 in the 1st round, and S2 in the 2nd round if everyone passes and S1 has no 2nd rd hand)
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am
In that situation, I could care less about the Left guarded.

My reference to the guarded Left was about my weak 2nd round loner on the last hand of the night. A guarded Left blows my hand up, and that hand is more likely to be there given that the Bot is in the 2 seat, and the Bot is passing R+1 in the 1st round, even R+1+an off ace.
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am
Sometimes your senses says this is crazy but you MUST do it to live to the next hand. Intuition or some call gut feeling, I call it THE SIXTH DIMENSION OF EUCHRE! Some have some don't!

I call BS, altho I'll acknowledge you can pick up extra "feels" in a live game. But in an online game. No.
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:07 am
And you are Seriously wrong about the two ACES in that situation, look again! Look at it statistically but I didn't use it as my decision maker.

There are 3 other hearts to accompany the AH and 2 remaining somewhere. With 2 there is 51% S4 has none. And if he had one, 42% and he would have discarded most likely having one heart. That leaves 6.5% he has two. Such low odds leaves the AH almost useless.

That's my story and I am sticking to it!
He could easily keep the KH if that's his best off suit left, but that's not really the point. This isn't about your dirty AH. It's the combination of your singleton green Ace along with your backup plan, the dirty AH. That's some decent defense to have, enough where you don't wanna donate to the other team. The dirty AH only becomes irrelevant if your P leads a Spade, and even that is not strictly true IF your P defends against loners well playing his hand in such a way to help you correctly sort your hand on the 4th trick.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:24 pm

It's funny how you tell someone the truth and they don't believe it!

Lol.

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