1st Seat Next Call - What to Lead

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inglewoodjack
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:15 am

1st Seat Next Call - What to Lead

Unread post by inglewoodjack » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:13 pm

Dealer turns down (Card_A-C) .
i am in the first seat, and call next with (Card_J-S) (Card_K-S)
I have no power in off suits, but I have a double diamond. I lead (Card_9-D) , which my partner takes.
He doesn't lead trump back, so I assume he has none.
I take 2nd trick with (Card_K-S). Knowing I have a sure point, I lead a junk card back to him, which, to my surprise, he trumps. He now leads (Card_J-C) back to me, and I play the (Card_J-S) . He trumps my last lead with the (Card_A-S) for a surprising 2 points.
He didn't think I had the right, since I didn't lead it. I told him I didn't think he had any, since he didn't lead it back, and that the rule of thumb is to not lead the right on a next call.
Should I have led the (Card_K-S) ? I did not want to strip him of trump, and with no power in my hand, I wanted back in the hand with the other diamond.



RedDuke
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Unread post by RedDuke » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:29 pm

You most certainly do NOT have a sure point. Where is that attitude coming from? I've gotten euchred while holding both the right and the king of trump.

After the second trump from your partner that wins, you know you do, but that King of Trump lead does not guarantee you a second point for the win.

irishwolf
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:29 pm

Not a great assumption on your part. Since you did not lead trump S3 assumes you are weak and he does not know where the Right is. So not surprising he is not leading trump on trick 2. You should not be so surprised, IMO. I think your 9D lead is okay. You need to get two tricks with your J/K.

I have no power in off suits, but I have a double diamond. I lead (Card_9-D) , which my partner takes.
He doesn't lead trump back, so I assume he has none.
I take 2nd trick with (Card_K-S). Knowing I have a sure point, I lead a junk card back to him, which, to my surprise, he trumps. He now leads (Card_J-C) back to me, and I play the (Card_J-S) . He trumps my last lead with the (Card_A-S) for a surprising 2 points.
He didn't think I had the right, since I didn't lead it. I told him I didn't think he had any, since he didn't lead it back, and that the rule of thumb is to not lead the right on a next call.
Should I have led the (Card_K-S) ? I did not want to strip him of trump, and with no power in my hand, I wanted back in the hand with the other diamond.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1189
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:07 pm

inglewoodjack wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:13 pm
Dealer turns down (Card_A-C) .
i am in the first seat, and call next with (Card_J-S) (Card_K-S)
I have no power in off suits, but I have a double diamond. I lead (Card_9-D) , which my partner takes.
With R+1+nothing else, my leads tend to veer towards singleton green, the idea being: if my partner has the Ace in that suit it is least likely to be trumped or if my P has a void in that suit he is least likely to get overtrumped. So If I have a hand like this:

(Card_K-S) (Card_J-S) (Card_Q-D) (Card_10-D) (Card_9-H)

I will lead the (Card_9-H)

I have no mathematical evidence backing this rule of thumb up. Just telling you what I would do and why. What's most important here is that you don't lead trump and you don't lead the turned down suit if you have it (unless you have no choice ofc). You don't wanna lead trump becuz with just two trump and no further help the last thing you want is for your team to blow two trump on one lead. And you don't wanna lead the turned down suit since that too often just leads to giving the enemy an easy trick.
inglewoodjack wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:13 pm
He doesn't lead trump back, so I assume he has none.
As Irishwolf said, bad assumption. If you have a partner that knows how to read hands he will know your line = a weak holding, most likely a two trump hand with no off aces. This means he will tend NOT to lead trump back dependent on what cards he holds.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1189
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:12 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:29 pm
Not a great assumption on your part. Since you did not lead trump S3 assumes you are weak and he does not know where the Right is. So not surprising he is not leading trump on trick 2. You should not be so surprised, IMO. I think your 9D lead is okay. You need to get two tricks with your J/K.
Assuming S3 took the first trick with the AD, it looks like he had a hand like this:

(Card_A-D) (Card_J-C) (Card_A-S) (Card_9-S) (Card_Q-H)

I made up the QH card to represent the garbage lead S3 made on trick two.

With a hand like that shouldn't S3 lead trump on the 2nd trick despite the fact that he has a read that his P is marginal?

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1189
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:15 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:29 pm
You most certainly do NOT have a sure point. Where is that attitude coming from? I've gotten euchred while holding both the right and the king of trump.

After the second trump from your partner that wins, you know you do, but that King of Trump lead does not guarantee you a second point for the win.
I think you misread the hand. He only said he had a sure point after his team got the 2nd trick with him still having the Right back.

inglewoodjack
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:15 am

Unread post by inglewoodjack » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:40 pm

Yes - I only knew I had a sure point after the 2nd trick, with the right still in my hand.
Definitely a mis-read on my part, thinking he had no trump. But - he was surprised that I had the right and didn't lead it on the first trick, which I think was the right call.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1189
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:19 pm

inglewoodjack wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:40 pm
Yes - I only knew I had a sure point after the 2nd trick, with the right still in my hand.
Definitely a mis-read on my part, thinking he had no trump. But - he was surprised that I had the right and didn't lead it on the first trick, which I think was the right call.
Yep, his read that you cannot have the Right after taking that line is misguided. In fact when a good player calls Next and takes your line, R+1+nothing else is the most likely holding based on my experience.

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