Tbolt65 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:19 am
Well don't throw the Ace of hearts here. Gives too much info out. You have no trump. So I would first throw the jack of diamond followed by the jack of hearts and throwing off hearts until one of your suits come.
To clarify a bit, what Edward/Tbolt65 is really saying here is when it's clear your partner, the maker, is not gonna take the first trick don't throw the

. However if our partner had led the Right bower, then I think we can all agree that throwing the Ah is our best move. Giving information away to our opponents now doesn't hurt us when our partner still has the lead. Generally I tend to agree with Edward in this regard but I don't strongly agree because I just don't really know. It is hard to know if the cost of giving away information to our opponents is greater than the value of information we are also giving to our partner.
So for example, say I have
And my partner calls clubs and leads the
Like I said above, I will throw the

letting him know I have hearts covered. We all get this.
But if my partner leads the

I will throw off the

which weakly tells my partner I have hearts covered without giving information away to my opponents. That's the approach me and Edward have set up when we're partners, but I often wonder if I'm just better off throwing the

anyways. I just don't know if the cost of giving information away to the enemy is greater than the benefit of letting my partner know for sure what suit I have covered. Maybe in this example I'm better off throwing the 9h on the first lead becuz Edward knows what that means, but what about when I'm playing with a random on the phone? They tend to know what the Ah means but not what the 9h means.
Irishwolf & jspectre, would you guys still throw the Ah off on the first lead with my example hand if your partner led the Qc with a random partner? Do you think the convention me and Edward have set up (throwing off the 9h instead of the Ah when it's clear our P is not gonna win the first lead) is worth the trouble?
irishwolf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:45 pm
I would toss the AH to let you partner know you have the KH. It might look like a bad but not so as the opponents will more than likely come to your AD. You should keep the AD guarded with the JD off suit. This is in case the dealer wins the first trick, he is not going to lead clubs (trump), probably diamonds (he might have KD + one D. If eldest trumps the diamond trick, you still have the AD for later. If you play the JD you might lose the opportunity for the AD to win a trick. I at least want my AD to pull a trick and it best to keep it guarded.
jspectre wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:15 pm
I agree with Irishwolf, toss the Ace of hearts away. Judging from that lead, our partner is either a bad player or someone with all spades as non-trump cards, who is trying to salvage the opportunity. One thing is for sure, they need all the help they can get, and knowing you have hearts covered is vital information. What happens when you throw a low diamond and after trumping that Q of spades, 1st seat leads back a heart that your partner then tries to trump, or even worse, they get over trumped because hearts are in short supply. I've had that situation happen too many times to risk not giving away the info on hearts. I'll do the same on my opponents call if my partner is making a play for the euchre, I want them to know that I either have that suit covered or I'm now void in it so I can trump over the dealer, it's up to them to use that information wisely.
These are some excellent posts. Even though I tend to agree with Edward's approach, I think irishwolf and jspectre are correct in this specific spot. I would say to Edward even if you are right, RedDuke's hand would be an exception.
And why is that? becuz of the other Ace!
Whatever theoretical information cost there is, that's gotta almost be completely nullified by having the other Ace. Plus this can also be another excellent opportunity to legally communicate. For example, if me and Edward are partners and I play the Ah on a garbage lead, Edward can now immediately know I have two aces! since I normally would play the 9h on a non-Right bower lead, weakly telling him I have hearts covered.
jspectre wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:15 pm
The most likely scenario here is that your partner has a strong hand and is just making a terrible first lead.
I agree. For the fun of it I tried to think of 1 hand example where that lead could be justified. Here's what I came up with:
If the dealer turns down the

and I call Next and lead a garbage spade you could pretty much know my entire hand. It would be something like this:
