Poll - Going alone on 8

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Do you ever go alone on 8

Never, you only need 2 and besides, it’s just plain rude’
2
17%
Yes, on hands where my partner can’t help and may hurt my hand’
10
83%
 
Total votes: 12

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Dlan
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Poll - Going alone on 8

Post by Dlan » Mon May 28, 2018 9:18 am

There seems to a lot of disagreement among most on-line players in regards to calling alone when at 8 points. Options seem to be split between ‘my partner can’t help and may hurt my hand’ to ‘you only need 2 and besides, it’s just plain rude’ .

What do you think?



Play2Win
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Post by Play2Win » Mon May 28, 2018 4:53 pm

You have to consider if you have a chance at 2 points with your p's help.
Sometimes when I have 3 or 4 top cards but not a "lay down" I will consider attempting a lone call on 8. IF I only have the top 2 with an almost guaranteed 1 point, I won't go alone. I was taught by, and even yelled at with my Dad as a partner, for not trying it alone. I consider myself to be an aggressive euchre player & make very lean calls, but at times I stay on the safer path and shoot 2 points.

Jeepster
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Post by Jeepster » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:21 pm

(Card_J-S) (Card_J-C) (Card_Q-C) (Card_K-C) (Card_A-C)

Going alone at any score should be an individual choice. No stigma attached. If you wish to go on 9 so be it. There is a very good chance would get a point anyway. If you want to go on 8, same deal applies, however you do so at your own peril. If you are euchred and your partner has the helping hand, then you're just plain greedy. At the end of the day, it's a game ... not a life-changing major situation ... so what's the big deal? A little perspective required, I think.

XaviRonaldo
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Post by XaviRonaldo » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:12 pm

It's even possible for your partner to euchre you on a hand you were fine on to get 1 point.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:53 pm

Dlan wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:18 am
There seems to a lot of disagreement among most on-line players in regards to calling alone when at 8 points. Options seem to be split between ‘my partner can’t help and may hurt my hand’ to ‘you only need 2 and besides, it’s just plain rude’ .

What do you think?
People that think you should not go alone on 8 are simply those who do not think very deeply about the game. In fact it really doesn't take much thought at all to find hand examples where going along on 8 is imperative.

EG: Take a heart loner like this: (Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_J-D) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S).

Notice if your partner has the (Card_A-S) he can totally screw you up later in the hand.

I.E. after you clean your opponents out of trump, you now play the (Card_K-S) , but then your partner goes over it and then plays a garbage card that your opponents can cover. This nightmare never happens if you just go alone.

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Locasta
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Post by Locasta » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:13 am

I used to get upset when someone called a loner on 8, but I don't anymore. I will say "on 8" and if they make it I will tell them good job and move on. ;)

I have seen people go alone on 9. As far as I can see that doesn’t make sense at all. You need is 1 point to win, UNLESS you are playing for total score at the end of the season.

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Post by RedDuke » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:20 am

Locasta wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:13 am
I used to get upset when someone called a loner on 8, but I don't anymore. I will say "on 8" and if they make it I will tell them good job and move on. ;)

I have seen people go alone on 9. As far as I can see that doesn’t make sense at all. You need is 1 point to win, UNLESS you are playing for total score at the end of the season.
It is possible for your partner to cause you to get euchred. Admittedly, I can't think of any example hands right now but there's no chance of something like this if you just go alone.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:16 pm

Locasta wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:13 am
I used to get upset when someone called a loner on 8, but I don't anymore. I will say "on 8" and if they make it I will tell them good job and move on. ;)
That's the wrong way of approaching this situation. Either it's correct to go alone with a particular holding at 8 or it is not. With certain holdings it clearly is. See my hand example above.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:52 pm

You are mistaken Wes on your partner screwing you up by having the AS in the example you cited.

So just How is that Possible?

I agree sometimes he can but not in that hand. Keep in mind he could also help you if the As is led and he trumps it. You now have a 'march' as you hold the J J A of hearts with Ks. And you have the option of over trumping your partner in clubs and diamonds.



Notice if your partner has the (Card_A-S) he can totally screw you up later in the hand.

Irishwolf

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:08 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:52 pm
You are mistaken Wes on your partner screwing you up by having the AS in the example you cited.

So just How is that Possible?
Imagine it's 8-8, it's a heart upcard, and you're in seat 1 with

(Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_J-D) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S)

You should go alone becuz if your partner has the (Card_A-S) you prefer him out of the hand as he can totally get in the way of a 2 point play later in the hand when you lead the (Card_K-S) and he takes it with his (Card_A-S) and then leads some garbage suit.

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Post by RedDuke » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:39 am

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:08 pm
irishwolf wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:52 pm
You are mistaken Wes on your partner screwing you up by having the AS in the example you cited.

So just How is that Possible?
Imagine it's 8-8, it's a heart upcard, and you're in seat 1 with

(Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_J-D) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S)

You should go alone becuz if your partner has the (Card_A-S) you prefer him out of the hand as he can totally get in the way of a 2 point play later in the hand when you lead the (Card_K-S) and he takes it with his (Card_A-S) and then leads some garbage suit.
The only way I can see your partner potentially helping on this hand is if one of your opponents has the ace of spades, your partner is void, spades is led, and the other opponent is not void (or can't overtrump your partner).

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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:44 am

RedDuke wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:39 am
The only way I can see your partner potentially helping on this hand is if one of your opponents has the ace of spades, your partner is void, spades is led, and the other opponent is not void (or can't overtrump your partner).
Can't happen in my example. We're going alone from the 1 seat so we are leading off.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 am

Not so if you are the Dealer with that hand.

RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:23 am

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 am
Not so if you are the Dealer with that hand.
I'm confused here. The way your partner can help if you're the dealer is if first seat leads Ace-Spades. Your partner then trumps it. If third seat follows suit then your partner may be able to get a trick. Then they have to have something to lead back to you that isn't garbage. If your partner has an Ace in diamonds or clubs though, then that might give you an ability to slough off the queen of spades, then you take the remaining three tricks with the three top trump.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:06 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:23 am
irishwolf wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:04 am
Not so if you are the Dealer with that hand.
I'm confused here. The way your partner can help if you're the dealer is if first seat leads Ace-Spades. Your partner then trumps it. If third seat follows suit then your partner may be able to get a trick. Then they have to have something to lead back to you that isn't garbage. If your partner has an Ace in diamonds or clubs though, then that might give you an ability to slough off the queen of spades, then you take the remaining three tricks with the three top trump.
Just wanna point out that you would not slough off the queen in that example. You have AJJ in trump + a boss Queen offsuit now. Trump the next lead no matter what it is and run it out.

Anyways, back to the discussion: That's what irishwolf is getting at. He's saying if you're the dealer your partner can possibly help you. But even as the dealer, your partner is way more likely to hurt you than help you. I mean there's basically only one permutation where your partner saves the day and helps you. 1st seat leads a spade (either he has the (Card_A-S) or his partner does) and your partner is void in spades and trumps in. That's a very specific combination of events vs those times your partner has the (Card_A-S) in their hand and gets in your way later in the hand. The latter will happen more often.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:33 pm

That one chance of your partner helping you can be calculated. He has to be void in spades which their are three spades (35% chance has a void). Now at the same time he has to have one of four unknown trumps that is 76% that he has one or more trumps. The product of the two is where he can help is 26%. If the dealer had to discard spade it goes up from there.

The chance my partner has the AS is 27%. But that is of no help. 56% of the time the opponents will have the AS. I say better to take him along. No help 73% and cannot obstruct regardless in the hand if the dealer is going alone.

Different situation if eldest is going alone - as he can potentially obstruct if he has the AS.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:42 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:33 pm
That one chance of your partner helping you can be calculated. He has to be void in spades which their are three spades (35% chance has a void). Now at the same time he has to have one of four unknown trumps that is 76% that he has one or more trumps. The product of the two is where he can help is 26%. If the dealer had to discard spade it goes up from there.

The chance my partner has the AS is 27%. But that is of no help. 56% of the time the opponents will have the AS. I say better to take him along. No help 73% and cannot obstruct regardless in the hand if the dealer is going alone.

Different situation if eldest is going alone - as he can potentially obstruct if he has the AS.
The math is wrong becuz your partner can only help you on the first lead. So you have to also calculate the probability of seat 1 having a spade and leading it.

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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:32 pm

I fully agree, my partner can only help me on the 1st lead, a spade lead. I will also say that either a diamond or club lead and my partner has the AS, he most likely will obstruct unless he has another spade to lead back to the dealer. I gave no calculation that 1st seat has or would even lead a spade but it is less than 33% because the dealer has two spades.

My answer above and the math was to your statement, (quoting you see below) or I thought you were referring to when 1st seat led the AS but it also applies to when 3rd seat having the AS when eldest leads a spade.
The Math is correct under those two scenarios that my partner can trump the spade trick ~26%. My partner can holds the AS 27% to 1st seat's spade lead.

1st seat leads a spade (either he has the (Card_A-S) or his partner does) and your partner is void in spades and trumps in

Irishwolf

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