Seat 3 but score is 8-8

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Call or Pass?

Call
8
67%
Pass
4
33%
 
Total votes: 12

Richardb02
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Seat 3 but score is 8-8

Post by Richardb02 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:14 am

(Card_A-S) up Seat 3 Round 1 Score 8-8 Average & equal Players
(Card_J-S) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_9-C) (Card_K-C)
Call or pass?



Tbolt65
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Post by Tbolt65 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:57 am

Average players, I'd call.

Above average players including your p, I'd pass.

Tbolt65
Edward

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:31 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:57 am
Average players, I'd call.

Above average players including your p, I'd pass.

Tbolt65
Edward
If the score is 0-0 I'd pass if you were my P knowing you are capable of making really thin next calls. Problem at 8-8 tho is you can't just call Next willy-nilly. You actually kinda have to have a real hand. If I pass, and the dealer and you pass and 2 seat calls red and closes out the game I'm gonna hate life. Same if I pass, the dealer passes, and you call red and go set cuz I can't help. These scenarios aren't all that unlikely given that the cards in my hand take out a ton of legit next call combos and I have almost no help on defense or offense on a red call. Of course the upside of passing is the dealer picking up, but that's not all that likely given our holding.

Down 9-8 with you as my partner, I would pass tho. With the enemy at 9 I know you have to call, and you'll veer toward next all things being equal. And if the dealer picks up we can steal the game. So you get the best of both worlds down 9-8. Not the case at 8-8.

Richardb02
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:16 am

Thanks Edward & Wes.

Your answers reveal how difficult the decision is at 8-8.

Wes clarifies that he would pass basically at any score than 8-8.

I encourage everyone to vote in the poll.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:01 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:16 am
Wes clarifies that he would pass basically at any score than 8-8.
To clarify further. If my partner is the typical euchre player who's not very good at euchre, I call at every score. The only score I'd be tempted to pass would be down 8-9.

If my partner is a very strong player. I would pass at every score except at 8-8, 9-9, up 9-8.

I'm calling at up 9-8 for the same reasons I'm calling at 8-8. Now why would I pass at 8-9 but call at 9-9. At 9-9, the incentive to euchre your opponent for the win is gone so now it all comes down to what are the odds your partner has a better 2nd rd hand than the one you have now. I think it's more likely I have the better hand for our team now so I'm making the first rd call.

What about hail mary loners? Say you're down 9-6. Why not go alone for the win? I actually would AS LONG AS my opponents dont know the convention on how to destroy most 1st rd 3rd seat loners. If they know that key strategy then there's practically no point in trying a loner with this specific holding because it will barely ever survive the first lead.

Based on my experience I would guess that only about 1 out of 1,000 players know how to properly defend against 1st rd, 3rd seat loners but that number should be WAY higher because all one has to do to figure it out is read this site!

Edit: here's the link on how to stop a 1st rd 3rd seat lone call: https://ohioeuchre.com/E_loneDef-example2.php

Basically the dealer tries to always void himself in next and the 2 seat, his partner, always leads next if he has it.

This spot is also the exception to the rule "Never lead a single ace vs a loner". If seat 2 has a single ace in Next he still must lead it.

And if the dealer has just the Ace in Next he should still get rid of it to void himself in Next unless he has virtually no hope of over-trumping the maker on the first lead.

The above strategy makes loners extremely difficult to sweep in this spot. Your opponent has to have close to a laydown to make it.
Last edited by Wes (aka the legend) on Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Richardb02
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:21 pm

Look at the hand I was dealt today:
(Card_K-S) Up Seat 3 Round 1 Up 9-8 Aggressive & equal players
(Card_J-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_9-C) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-D)
I was tempted to Order but because of this discussion I passed.
For the record and not because it has significance, it worked.
The real lesson is that reading this forum and the lessons that it contains will improve your in Euchre. Of course you must apply what you learn.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:33 am

Richardb02 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:21 pm
Look at the hand I was dealt today:
(Card_K-S) Up Seat 3 Round 1 Up 9-8 Aggressive & equal players
(Card_J-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_9-C) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-D)
I was tempted to Order but because of this discussion I passed.
For the record and not because it has significance, it worked.
The real lesson is that reading this forum and the lessons that it contains will improve your in Euchre. Of course you must apply what you learn.
Yep definitely pass that hand at all scores. Way too dicey for a 3rd seat call.

icanplay
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:05 pm

Post by icanplay » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:26 pm

Seat 3 score 8-8
I am very conservative in seat 3. This is tempting to call, but I have learned to resist the temptation (ordering the ACE of trump is also a factor). I want to trust my partner should the dealer pass. In the past I use to order, and too often got set only to hear the dealer say he was going to pick it up. Now in recent times it often happens that I pass, and the dealer picks it up. sometimes we get the set, sometimes we don't. I am happy that i did not order in both scenarios... Unfortunately, once in a while, the dealer turns down and my partner passes and seat two calls red, which is a kick in the gut, and probably game- set -match.... but not as bad as getting set...

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