Is Euchre 3D Rigged

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jblowery
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Is Euchre 3D Rigged

Unread post by jblowery » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:11 pm

I do enjoy this app and I've enjoyed spending a lot of time on it. I've also been pretty successful overall. However, I've noticed a difference between my success when my tokens are closer to 10 (I've never purchased any) vs. when my tokens are getting close to 0. I'm wondering if anybody else has noticed this.

I seem to get a lot better hands (relative to what the up card is) when I'm closer to 10.

My girlfriend also says she's experienced the same trend.



Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:38 pm

jblowery wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:11 pm
I do enjoy this app and I've enjoyed spending a lot of time on it. I've also been pretty successful overall. However, I've noticed a difference between my success when my tokens are closer to 10 (I've never purchased any) vs. when my tokens are getting close to 0. I'm wondering if anybody else has noticed this.

I seem to get a lot better hands (relative to what the up card is) when I'm closer to 10.

My girlfriend also says she's experienced the same trend.
Who knows. When it comes to Euchre sites, poker sites, etc being rigged the prudent course is to go with the Sagan standard: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

I almost have direct experience with real riggage back in the day when it was proven that there was a superuser on Absolute poker stealing lots of money from players becuz he could see everyone's cards and thus make perfect decisions at the table. I played on the site at the time but luckily he never played at my table. That said, I think it's best to assume a site is not rigged unless one has extremely strong evidence suggesting otherwise.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:34 pm

I remembered this post from eons ago. I never responded but think it is time that I do. Now I don't play on that particular app. I have played though on many, Pogo, Yahoo, Trickster, etc. All of those have Pseudo Random dealing. Guess what they can be programmed do things, just need a "trigger" and that can be many ways, scores, etc.

And Wes made a comment (see below). So it is always difficult because even in live players, live table, sh . . it happens. We all know that. However, here is how you can tell if a the dealing is truly Random in General. It is not a mystery. Some websites, for example, (not naming any) seem to always ( 90 - 95% of the time all the aces are in play, a King almost never wins a trick unless the Ace is turned down). I suspect some are programmed to have Aces in play far too often but that can easily be discovered. Track all three off suit aces or a particular Ace as to how often it is buried in the Stock. For example, there are three off suit aces, thus of 3, and you have NO aces in your hand, 18 unknown cards, 55.8% of the time the Stock will have NO aces (all will be in play to one of the 3 other players. It also means 44.2% of the time, one or more of the aces will be buried. Slightly less than half the time an ace can be expected to be buried. You just don't know which ones. And two off suit aces will buried 5.5% (1 in 20 deals).

If you track a particular ace, say hearts is trump and you want to know what is the probability of the AC buried, statistically, many hands played it will on the average be buried 16.7% of the time. Of course any particular hand, with random dealing, you do not know when it will be buried.

So if you want to prove your "extraordinary clam", spend a little time tracking the aces. If the aces are rigged, most likely hands can and will be rigged. I hate it when the dealing is rigged as I find myself looking for patterns when to expect the "unexpected".

So we find ourselves playing again rigged aces by sitting up your King doubleton, or I have a hand but now expect an equally strong hand with one of the opponents. So now players, believe or not, psychologically adjusting their game. When it comes to live play, you find yourself playing too conservatively. It was that way on Yahoo and Pogo, now long gone.

So why would it be rigged? I don't know but suspect to weaker player around as if you lose too often, you don't show up. Or to make the game more interesting??? Wow!

So there are you tools if you are interested. Otherwise, shut up and play.

But to each their own.

Wes said, "Who knows. When it comes to Euchre sites, poker sites, etc being rigged the prudent course is to go with the Sagan standard: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:32 pm

Hmm I'll keep an eye on that. See what happens.
Tbolt65
Edward

RedDuke
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Unread post by RedDuke » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:39 pm

All of those have Pseudo Random dealing.
As you correctly point out, most computer random number generators are in fact pseudo-random. You can predict the cards that will be dealt. Usually, they are based on some seed like the time of day or the fan speed of that specific computer or something like that. You can predict exactly what cards you're going to be dealt based on that information. An easy example is that I find that I'm far more likely to wind up with a farmer's hand in the KARMAN Euchre App if I play at 2 a.m. compared to 1 p.m. Yes, I have actually charted this and it's a pretty weird probability distribution. I suspect that most of the other card game apps use similar distributions.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:47 am

Ya RedDuke, I hate to p i s s in somebody's soup. It's telling someone the truth about Santa Klaus, the Easter Buggy, and the Toot Fairy, etc.

Oh Well!

RedDuke
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Unread post by RedDuke » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:50 am

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:47 am
Ya RedDuke, I hate to p i s s in somebody's soup. It's telling someone the truth about Santa Klaus, the Easter Buggy, and the Toot Fairy, etc.

Oh Well!
Of course, if one person is consistently getting weak hands based on the algorithms, someone else is consistently getting strong hands. Yesterday afternoon, I was playing around 1 p.m. and during that game, I was dealt two lay-down loners in a row! I had a third hand where I had both bars and king-queen of trump and on off-ace!

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LeftyK
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Location: North Carolina

Unread post by LeftyK » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:33 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:38 pm
jblowery wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:11 pm
I do enjoy this app and I've enjoyed spending a lot of time on it. I've also been pretty successful overall. However, I've noticed a difference between my success when my tokens are closer to 10 (I've never purchased any) vs. when my tokens are getting close to 0. I'm wondering if anybody else has noticed this.

I seem to get a lot better hands (relative to what the up card is) when I'm closer to 10.

My girlfriend also says she's experienced the same trend.
Who knows. When it comes to Euchre sites, poker sites, etc being rigged the prudent course is to go with the Sagan standard: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

I almost have direct experience with real riggage back in the day when it was proven that there was a superuser on Absolute poker stealing lots of money from players becuz he could see everyone's cards and thus make perfect decisions at the table. I played on the site at the time but luckily he never played at my table. That said, I think it's best to assume a site is not rigged unless one has extremely strong evidence suggesting otherwise.
Wes, same thing happened at FTP (Full Tilt Poker); some pros could see all the hands at tables.

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:37 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:39 pm
All of those have Pseudo Random dealing.
As you correctly point out, most computer random number generators are in fact pseudo-random. You can predict the cards that will be dealt. Usually, they are based on some seed like the time of day or the fan speed of that specific computer or something like that. You can predict exactly what cards you're going to be dealt based on that information. An easy example is that I find that I'm far more likely to wind up with a farmer's hand in the KARMAN Euchre App if I play at 2 a.m. compared to 1 p.m. Yes, I have actually charted this and it's a pretty weird probability distribution. I suspect that most of the other card game apps use similar distributions.
Yeah, the KARMAN euch is evil. It comes up with hands you never (or rarely) see IRL and hands them out as fairly common. I see patterns in tricksters too. And esp with 3D I see when you are bound to lose more times than not they are dealing team and they march no matter if the score is close or not.

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:30 am

LeftyK wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:37 pm
Yeah, the KARMAN euch is evil. It comes up with hands you never (or rarely) see IRL and hands them out as fairly common. I see patterns in tricksters too. And esp with 3D I see when you are bound to lose more times than not they are dealing team and they march no matter if the score is close or not.
If you're hating Karman over that crap you're doing it wrong. The real reason to hate karman is it is a complete bastardization of euchre. The "go under" rule ruins the game. And all loners getting dealer's position is bad too. Problem is I'm still totally addicted to that app. It's just so user friendly. It's basically designed to minimize misclicks and I love that. Plus it's so easy on the eye. Love the graphics. Reminds me of partypoker back in the day. When I play at other sites like Euchre 3D, trickster, or WOCGs, etc, I get a headache after like an hour. Whereas I can play on Karman all day. Say what you will about Karman. All euchre apps/sites should copy its design.

I'm still very skeptical over the "seeing patterns" part but the bigger thing is I just don't see why I should care. Like even if there are seeable patterns, I'm not gonna stop playing euchre when I go the bathroom. Lol.

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LeftyK
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Unread post by LeftyK » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:52 am

yeah the "go under" rated rule is the reason I quit playing rated on there (47 high in 18days on that app now 40.00) yeah and loners lead left of caller instead of left of dealer sux too.

Tbolt65
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Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:03 pm

When playing on yahoo. If you where blue on even numbered tables it was favorable. Or if you where red on odd number tables it was more favorable. Anyone who played there would be able to tell you this. However slight it may have been. There was a diffence.

Tbolt65
Edward

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