Loaner call when in the barn?

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Streblerm
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:58 am

Loaner call when in the barn?

Post by Streblerm » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:44 am

Is it bad form to call an obvious loaner when you’re in the barn? I was recently playing a game where my partner quit over this call. The score was 9-7 in our favor. I thought that was one of the dumber things I’d seen lately. I was in the second seat holding
(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_K-C) (Card_Q-C) (Card_A-S)

The up card was:
(Card_10-C)

If I’m in the dealer’s position I’m thinking, awesome we win. From my perspective this was all but a guaranteed loaner and at least a guaranteed point.

My partner took this as an insult and the opponents dragged out the final hand to a ridiculous degree so it has me wondering if I’m the jerk.



RedDuke
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:48 pm

Streblerm wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:44 am
Is it bad form to call an obvious loaner when you’re in the barn? I was recently playing a game where my partner quit over this call. The score was 9-7 in our favor. I thought that was one of the dumber things I’d seen lately. I was in the second seat holding
(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_K-C) (Card_Q-C) (Card_A-S)

The up card was:
(Card_10-C)

If I’m in the dealer’s position I’m thinking, awesome we win. From my perspective this was all but a guaranteed loaner and at least a guaranteed point.

My partner took this as an insult and the opponents dragged out the final hand to a ridiculous degree so it has me wondering if I’m the jerk.
I really want to know how drunk you were if you got set on that hand. Even on the off case that the Ace of Spades gets trumped, that's still a guaranteed point.

A lot of amateur players consider it bad form to go alone if you have either eight or nine points. Pretty much no serious euchre players do. For instance, it's pretty easy to think of a hand in which taking your partner along gets you only one point instead of two.

For example:

You're in first seat holding this:

(Card_10-C) (Card_K-C) (Card_A-D) (Card_J-H) (Card_J-D)

You order the (Card_10-D) up.

If your partner is holding the Ace of Clubs then this is a one point hand if the dealer has a void in clubs. If you go alone, then it's a 4 point hand unless the dealer has four diamonds (and if he has that then it's a one-point hand no matter what you do).

So that's the argument for going alone on 8.

The argument for going alone on 9 is a little more iffy. Technically, it is possible for your partner to get you euchred when you would have made a point by going alone. In probably 10,000+ games of euchre, the only time I can recall seeing that happen is when the call was made on a fairly weak loner hand (two trump, neither of which was a bower+a green ace or two) and the partner trumped a green ace and led back something that the enemy was able to take. Such a scenario pretty much relies on your partner being drunk, stupid, or both.

The only good reason that I'm ever seen for bringing your partner along on eight or nine points when you have a viable loner is that it's the polite thing to do since the partner was with you the whole game to begin with. Few serious players are going to have a problem with you going alone when in the barn as long as you had a hand that was a viable loner. Now, if you had something like a farmer's hand and went alone, your partner would understandably upset. But with the hand you describe, no serious player is going to have a problem with you going alone there.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:47 pm

Streblerm wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:44 am
Is it bad form to call an obvious loaner when you’re in the barn? I was recently playing a game where my partner quit over this call. The score was 9-7 in our favor. I thought that was one of the dumber things I’d seen lately. I was in the second seat holding
(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_K-C) (Card_Q-C) (Card_A-S)

The up card was:
(Card_10-C)

If I’m in the dealer’s position I’m thinking, awesome we win. From my perspective this was all but a guaranteed loaner and at least a guaranteed point.

My partner took this as an insult and the opponents dragged out the final hand to a ridiculous degree so it has me wondering if I’m the jerk.
Unless you're playing in a tournament setting where points are important, it is generally considered rude to go alone at 9. Since there's no strategic value to going alone at 9, just call, get the point and win the game. I personally don't care what others do at 9 but enough people get annoyed when others go alone at that score that I myself see no point in going alone and upsetting people for no reason. That said, I still think your opponents were acting childish by dragging the game out. Yes you broke an unwritten social rule. So what. It's just a game.

That said, if by chance you're playing a weird variation of euchre where Going Alone always gets you the dealer's position, then going alone at 9 DOES have some strategic value.

E.G. Score is 9-9. Upcard is (Card_9-H)

You are in Seat 2 with

(Card_K-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_J-D) (Card_A-C) (Card_K-C)

By going alone and thus putting the lead in the right spot you lower your chances of getting euchred exponentially. Now obviously no matter what you do here your chances of getting euchred are already really low, but going alone here makes it virtually zero. So I would go alone in that scenario even if the whole room thought I was a jerk for doing so.

Streblerm
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:58 am

Post by Streblerm » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:10 am

The app I used keeps stats, one of which is successful loaners. Enjoyment is a big part of why play but the stats are why I play rated games and I assume why others do as well. Otherwise there is the option to play unrated games. Even in that scenario unrated games still tally successful loaners.

I will probably continue continue to call a loaner when I have one. Even in a game with friends I would likely do the same.

It seems to me that part of euchre is playing each hand to its highest potential. While I don’t enjoy losing I can appreciate an opponent skillfully playing the hand they are dealt.

I might even argue that it is disingenuous to pretend you don’t have a good hand when you do. Would it be more polite to throw a trick if you only need one point?

I was mostly asking this question to vent. I’m pretty clear on how I feel about it. If my partner calls a loaner at 9 I’m just happy we won.

Also, since the app I use has no mechanism to “friend” people for future partners there’s really no reason to worry about being overly polite. You shouldn’t be a jerk, well, just because. I have no problem sleeping at night after calling alone.

RedDuke
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:36 am

Streblerm wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:10 am
The app I used keeps stats, one of which is successful loaners. Enjoyment is a big part of why play but the stats are why I play rated games and I assume why others do as well. Otherwise there is the option to play unrated games. Even in that scenario unrated games still tally successful loaners.

I will probably continue continue to call a loaner when I have one. Even in a game with friends I would likely do the same.

It seems to me that part of euchre is playing each hand to its highest potential. While I don’t enjoy losing I can appreciate an opponent skillfully playing the hand they are dealt.

I might even argue that it is disingenuous to pretend you don’t have a good hand when you do. Would it be more polite to throw a trick if you only need one point?

I was mostly asking this question to vent. I’m pretty clear on how I feel about it. If my partner calls a loaner at 9 I’m just happy we won.

Also, since the app I use has no mechanism to “friend” people for future partners there’s really no reason to worry about being overly polite. You shouldn’t be a jerk, well, just because. I have no problem sleeping at night after calling alone.
Is it disingenuous to pass when you have something like this in first seat?

(Card_J-C) (Card_J-D) (Card_J-S) (Card_J-H) (Card_A-H)

Upcard is (Card_10-H) .

Sure, you're guaranteed a point if you order up the dealer. The smart thing to do with this hand is to pass both in Round 1 and Round 2. Why? Because you've got a really good shot at euchring the maker when he orders up. If you're playing stick-the-dealer, he's going to have to call something and when he does, you have both bowers and an ace for 2 points. By ordering up, you get one point.

Is it disingenuous to pass there and pretend that you've got nothing in your hand? Or are you better off getting two points from the euchre instead of one point from calling?

Streblerm
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:58 am

Post by Streblerm » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:42 am

I would say clearly not. As you said, play to win.

My comment about being disingenuous was only related to not calling alone if you basically have a guaranteed loaner hand in the interest of being polite.

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