How Strong to Call from 3rd positiion - Round 1

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jblowery
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

How Strong to Call from 3rd positiion - Round 1

Post by jblowery » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:03 pm

I know 3rd position is vulnerable to euchre, particularly during round 1. How strong of a hand do you need to call it. Let's say I have (Card_J-C) (Card_10-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-H) and the upcard is (Card_K-C) . Would you order this up from 3rd position?



Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:19 pm

jblowery wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:03 pm
I know 3rd position is vulnerable to euchre, particularly during round 1. How strong of a hand do you need to call it. Let's say I have (Card_J-C) (Card_10-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-H) and the upcard is (Card_K-C) . Would you order this up from 3rd position?
I pass that hand, but it's close. At the very least, if one does call this it should pretty much be the exact bottom of their calling range.

In theory this hand is a CLEAR pass, it's not strong enough to call from 3rd, 1st rd, and it's not just becuz we are in the most dangerous spot in the game due to the fact we don't have the lead, and can get overtrumped by the dealer who just created a void after we gave him a trump. Another reason to consider passing here is to keep in mind that every time we call from 3rd, 1st round to try to fight for a point (which is what this hand is doing), we need a parlay to occur to make our call correct in the technical sense. We need both the dealer to have a passing hand if we had passed, and our partner to not have at least a 1 point calling hand in the 2nd rd had we passed and the dealer passed. If either leg of that parlay doesn't hold then we will always be better off passing since why would we fight for a point in the toughest spot in the game if the dealer would've called anyways or our partner had at least a 1 point calling hand in the 2nd round. Parlays are hard to hit. This is yet another reason that one needs to play really tight from 3rd, first rd.

But of course I said "in theory". The water get's muddy if our partner doesn't play 1st seat, 2nd round well. If our partner often passes biddable hands in the 2nd rd, that might swing this marginal hand into a call in the first rd. I honestly don't know. All I can say is with no reads I do pass JT9 + nothing from 3rd, 1st rd. There's just so much to balance here. The inherent toughness of Seat 3, 1st rd calls, the parlay problem, and the vicissitudes of our partner's play, and it's not just what they do in the 2nd round. If your partner doesn't lead trump to your calls, you can forget about even trying this marginal call.

Let's do one controversial example of what I would do in Seat 3, 1st round just for fun:

Score is 0-0. Dealer upcard is a (Card_9-S)

The action is on me and I have (Card_A-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_10-S) (Card_A-D) (Card_A-H)

I'm passing this hand ALL DAY and here's why.

1) If I pass and the dealer picks up, my team now has a great chance to set him.

2) If I pass and the dealer passes, my hand hits my partner well enough no matter what he calls. If he calls next I have 3 aces to help him including 2 singleton green aces. If he crosses the river, I still have 2 off aces to help his cause.

3) I have no bowers in my hand. This is important, not becuz I wish I had bowers, no it's more subtle than that. When I have no bowers in my hand there is a greater than normal chance my partner is sitting on a 2nd round loner those times the dealer passes. Also, when I have no bowers in my hand there is a greater than normal chance the dealer picks up despite the fact that I have 3 trump. Both these potential outcomes are awesome for my team. I don't wanna mess up this favorable dynamic by calling.

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