Rt+1 calling in variou situations

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jblowery
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Rt+1 calling in variou situations

Post by jblowery » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:01 pm

Let's say I have (Card_J-H) and (Card_10-H) and the rest of my cards are low. No aces or other trump. One of these cards would be the up card if I'm the dealer.

In which situations would you call hearts. For example, would you generally order up hearts for your partner if you are in Seat 2. Would you call next if diamonds was turned down and you are in Seat 1? How about calling next from Seat 3?

I know you wouldn't order this up for the other team during round 1 or use this for a reverse next call.

Thanks.



Play2Win
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Post by Play2Win » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:40 pm

Right, plus one is always a biddable hand.
Think of it this way, the right is good for one trick, trumping into your void would be the second. Your partner needs to come through for the last one. If you were to take the first trick with your 10, do not lead back the right. It may strip your partner of his only chance to help.

I would need a lot more information before I could give you an answer to your other questions.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:04 pm

jblowery wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:01 pm
Let's say I have (Card_J-H) and (Card_10-H) and the rest of my cards are low. No aces or other trump. One of these cards would be the up card if I'm the dealer.

In which situations would you call hearts.
As the dealer: Always pick up Rt+1 if you don't block all suits. This hand makes a point often enough to make sure Seat 1 never gets a 2nd round loner.

From seat 1, 2nd rd: If you don't block reverse next then Rt+1 is a MUST call. Just remember to NOT lead trump and Don't lead the turned down suit.

Seat 2, 1st rd: If you don't block all suits, always order RT+1. This marginal call will score a point for your team very often as the dealer won't have to have much for your team to eke out a point. If you pass the dealer can correctly pass all kinds of helper hands he would not pass if he knew you had RT+1. Don't induce your partner to make these technical mistakes, and thus allow Seat 1 a chance at a 2nd round loner when you have this hopeful of a holding. To reiterate: always call RT+1 when you don't block all suits. It's imperative.

From Seat 3, 2nd Rd: When I have nothing going on in other suits I call this. This is a bit of a controversial call. What's baked into this call is the idea that your partner probably passes too much, at least in the 2nd Rd. Therefore he has a decent chance to help you. And the driving force behind this super-marginal call is you wanna block all reverse next loners from the dealer spot.

That said if your partner is a very strong, aggressive player who will call next super thin when he doesn't block reverse next, then you should NOT call with just RT+1 in next. Your partner passing = he already has reverse next blocked, which means as a team you guys have ALL suits blocked, so there's no reason to risk a shaky call to begin with. The problem however is this strong of a partner is mostly mythical.

RT+1 from 3rd, seat 2nd round only activates into a calling hand when your partner passes too much in the 2nd round, but here's the rub: At least 99% of all euchre players pass too much from seat 1, 2nd round, therefore RT+1 becomes a standard sigh call for me becuz I'm not giving the dealer a chance at a 4 pt or even 2 pt play when I have nothing in reverse next.


jblowery wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:01 pm
I know you wouldn't order this up for the other team during round 1
Correct. Never would.
jblowery wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:01 pm
or use this for a reverse next call.
Not so fast my friend!!

Let's say your team is up 6-0, and you are in the 2 seat with

(Card_J-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_9-C) (Card_9-D) (Card_9-S)

Your partner turns down the (Card_10-D) in the first round, and now the action is on you in the 2nd round.

Call hearts and fight it out. Yes it's dicey, but up 6-0, why take the chance that Seat 3 is loaded in black. You after all have virtually nothing in black and no off aces. Most cards in euchre are in action. This means if you don't have it someone else likely does. Yes your partner's range is statistically more likely to be strong in black, but it could be Seat 3 too. In this spot I'm gritting my teeth and calling hearts. I'm never letting the guy on my left have a chance at ANY loner when my team is up 6-0. Don't just assume you're dead since your partner is statically less likely to have any help. You never know, you could get lucky.
When you have a nice lead and don't block much, trying to get lucky is going to be your best option. Sometimes a "bad" call is better than a "good" pass.

Something to keep in mind. Hoyle does play a factor in our decision making but it is NOT the primary factor. What suits you have blocked or not is the primary factor becuz in the 2nd round you have to play strong defense to protect your team. Any time you pass in the 2nd round and the guy on your left gets 4 points or 2 points that's not bad luck, that's on you. There is a lot of luck in this game, but there's a lot of ways you can manipulate that luck in your team's favor. This reality should form the foundation to one's 2nd round calling. That said, everything being close to equal, go with Hoyle, but it's often not that easy.

RedDuke
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:59 am

Play2Win wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:40 pm
Right, plus one is always a biddable hand.
Think of it this way, the right is good for one trick, trumping into your void would be the second. Your partner needs to come through for the last one. If you were to take the first trick with your 10, do not lead back the right. It may strip your partner of his only chance to help.

I would need a lot more information before I could give you an answer to your other questions.
As the dealer it is. From any other seat, it's not.

Wes explains it pretty well. The only guaranteed trick that you have here is the right, unless you can have last play and a void, in which case the hand is good for a second trick.

I would not call this first round from first or third seat. The reason being that you already have any loner stopped with your right but this hand is not strong enough on its own to make a point. Now if you have a side ace or two (preferably a green one with no other cards in the same suit) then it might be worth calling.

From second seat, I'd probably call but it depends on the upcard and my partner. If I have a partner that's super aggressive, I might not do it because I wouldn't want to step on his lone and if all I'm holding is Right+1 and garbage, then there's a decent chance that he's got a potential loner. This is especially true if the upcard is the ace. Most players are rather hesitant to go alone if they're not holding the right though and if I've got one of those as my partner then I'll just order him up here.

As the dealer, I'm calling it. The hope is that first seat will lead into my void and I can take the first trick with the low trump. My partner will hopefully have the Ace to one of my garbage cards and can take a second trick. Then the right will do the rest.

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