Holding right and left bowers......only!

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daktsk
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:37 am

Holding right and left bowers......only!

Post by daktsk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 pm

I've been getting a lot of hands like this lately......

(Card_J-H) (Card_J-D) (Card_K-C) (Card_10-S) (Card_9-C)

You have both bowers, but the rest is junk. Now, if you believe in the, (my), first rule of euchre...... "Depend on your partner for one", naming hearts or diamonds should get you a point. However, I have, and have seen other people, get euchred a lot trying this. I've noticed that as a general rule, sometime during the playing of the hand, you have the chance to throw off, losing a trick, (while you still have both bowers), rather than using one to take said trick. It seems to me that if I use one bower, I get euchred. If I let them take it, I make my point. Anyone have any suggestions on how to play a hand only having the bowers?



Richardb02
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am

Before I look at my hand, I evaluate my Seat.
From Seat 1 & 3, Round 1, I would pass.
Ordering from Seat 2 is good. Picking from Seat 4 is strong.
If it it now Round 2, you have to look at Next and Reverse Next.
Seat 1, calling Next, is strong.
Seat 1, calling Reverse Next is an edge call (borderline).
Seat 2, calling Reverse Next is strong.
Seat 2, calling Next is ok.
Seat 3 would be a pass.
Seat 4 would be a call, Reverse Next is stronger than Next.
You can see more details in my post, Bidding Point System (BPS)- Basic.

RedDuke
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:22 pm

I agree with Richard. If I'm in Seat 1 or Seat 3, I'll pass this hand. From Seat 1, if the hand is a point maker then it doesn't matter what side calls as you have first lead. If everybody passes, then you actually have a bit better odds calling next in the second round (which you should do). Seat 3 needs to have a seriously killer hand to call at any time and two bowers with no other trump or supporting aces isn't strong enough to call in either round. If you were to change the ten of spades to the ace though, I'd probably call.

Seat 2 should order up his partner. Usually I don't like to do this if I don't have at least three trump but if you're holding both bowers, it's pretty unlikely that you're stepping on your partner's lone call. If you're dealer, you should pick up here as well because you get a third trump and can discard the 10, giving yourself a 3-trump 2-suited hand. I'd actually pick up and go alone here as the dealer.

So, in conclusion:
Seat 1 - Pass in round 1, Call in round 2
Seat 2 - Call in either round
Seat 3 - Pass in both rounds
Seat 4 - Pick up and go alone in first round, call in second round

Richardb02
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 am

Here is a related and interesting hand:
Up Card (Card_10-C) Score 5-6 Players average & equal
Your Seat 2 hand:
(Card_10-D) (Card_J-C) (Card_J-H) (Card_9-S) (Card_J-S)
Order up or call?
You only have the Right and the Left, the subject of this post.
But a key idea in Euchre (and every endeavor) is to keep increasing your understanding.
What would you do and why?

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:18 pm

daktsk wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 pm
I've been getting a lot of hands like this lately......

(Card_J-H) (Card_J-D) (Card_K-C) (Card_10-S) (Card_9-C)

You have both bowers, but the rest is junk. Now, if you believe in the, (my), first rule of euchre...... "Depend on your partner for one", naming hearts or diamonds should get you a point.


Keep in mind that most euchre adages like "depend on your partner for one" were meant for beginners, specifically to guide them on their calls. Ideally you wanna break free from all euchre "rules of thumb" becuz altho they work very well for beginners, they will ultimately hold you back from ever becoming a strong player. For example there are many instances where you should call hoping your partner can get two, sometimes even 3! Euchre is a very complex game, or at least way more complex then most people give it credit for.
daktsk wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 pm
However, I have, and have seen other people, get euchred a lot trying this. I've noticed that as a general rule, sometime during the playing of the hand, you have the chance to throw off, losing a trick, (while you still have both bowers), rather than using one to take said trick. It seems to me that if I use one bower, I get euchred. If I let them take it, I make my point. Anyone have any suggestions on how to play a hand only having the bowers?
It sounds like you got the right idea. When you have two bowers and nothing else, give your partner every opportunity to get a trick.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:32 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
Before I look at my hand, I evaluate my Seat.
From Seat 1 & 3, Round 1, I would pass.
I agree.
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
Ordering from Seat 2 is good. Picking from Seat 4 is strong.
I think the hand is stronger from seat 2 becuz your team is guaranteed to have 3 trump. Not the case when you order from the dealer spot. Not closing the action is not a problem either with this hand from seat 2 becuz your plan should be to throw off on any non-green ace lead hoping your partner (who got to create a void) takes a trick, and when you do trump in you can't get overtrumped. And I would also never call this hand "strong" from the dealer spot. I don't think 2 bowers and nothing else can ever be qualified as strong, but that's just semantics. No matter what, we all agree it's a must call from the 2 spot or the 4.
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
If it it now Round 2, you have to look at Next and Reverse Next.
Seat 1, calling Next, is strong.
Seat 1, calling Reverse Next is an edge call (borderline).
I agree that you gotta "cross the river" with this holding. Giving seat 2 a chance to pull off a loner sweep in any suit or even a 2 point call would be tragic when you hold 2 bowers
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
Seat 2, calling Reverse Next is strong.
Seat 2, calling Next is ok.
Yep, call both.
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
Seat 3 would be a pass.
This is where I almost spit out my proverbial coffee and vehemently disagree. You have 2 guaranteed tricks. Even if your partner has no trump and just an off ace, you guys can easily score a point. With 2 bowers and nothing else going for your hand, you gotta call this. Never give the dealer a shot at a 2-4 point play with this strong of a holding (I don't think this holding is inherently strong, but strong enough that you cannot risk a pass).

Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
SSeat 4 would be a call, Reverse Next is stronger than Next.
You can see more details in my post, Bidding Point System (BPS)- Basic.
Yep. Call.

RedDuke
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:40 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 am
Here is a related and interesting hand:
Up Card (Card_10-C) Score 5-6 Players average & equal
Your Seat 2 hand:
(Card_10-D) (Card_J-C) (Card_J-H) (Card_9-S) (Card_J-S)
Order up or call?
You only have the Right and the Left, the subject of this post.
But a key idea in Euchre (and every endeavor) is to keep increasing your understanding.
What would you do and why?
Pass from second seat. If dealer picks up then you have a great helper hand. If he doesn't and first seat calls next then you've got one heck of a surprise for him. You've even got a guaranteed trick in both reverse next suits if everybody passes and first seat tries to cross the river (unlikely with you having a red jack though).

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