Fourth Trick Lead

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RedDuke
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Fourth Trick Lead

Post by RedDuke » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:36 pm

This has been happening a lot lately in the games that I've been playing and it's getting annoying. I'm wondering if there's any hard and fast rule for what to lead on the fourth trick.

For example, let's say your partner in first seat made trump and your side took the first three tricks. On the fourth trick then, the only two trumps remaining on the right in my partner's hand and the left in mine. In addition, we both have a trash card and the suits are different. If my partner led the trash card, then I would take it with the left and lead back something that he could take with the right, giving us march and 2 points.

Almost always though, my partner will lead the right on the fourth trick. This strips my left, leaving our opponents to take the final trick. In other words, because my partner led a trump on the fourth lead, he cost us a point!

I thought I saw somewhere (maybe here) that you should never lead a trump on the fourth trick, presumably to prevent this situation. Is there a hard and fast rule for this though? I know I almost never lead a trump if I have the lead...



Richardb02
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:05 pm

Yes. On OE, Ohio Euchre you should lead a non-trump o the 4th hand.
The url is:
https://ohioeuchre.com/L-Learn_To_Play_Euchre_Lesson-9_the-euchre-end-play-how-and-why.php
You can also find it on Lessons, 4th Hand
Once you understand the concept, it is 100% clear,
Assume that you and Partner have a trump, on the 4th hand,
Lead a non-trump
Your Partner trumps,
He/ They lead a non-trump to you,
You trump and 2 Points. YEAH!

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:14 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:36 pm
because my partner led a trump on the fourth lead, he cost us a point!
I thought I saw somewhere (maybe here) that you should never lead a trump on the fourth trick, presumably to prevent this situation. Is there a hard and fast rule for this though? I know I almost never lead a trump if I have the lead...
When one should lead trump on the 4th trick:

1) When you have Boss, Boss.

2) When your partner called it and the enemy already has 2 tricks. Lead trump to your partner now. It's your team's best chance of not getting euchred.

3) When the action indicates your partner has nothing but trump left. E.G. your partner called it from the dealer spot and hasn't played a trump yet by the 4th trick. Lead trump to your partner to save your partner from getting euchred those rare times his 2 trump aren't that high. E.G. your partner, the dealer has (Card_A-S) (Card_10-S) left in trump but seat 3 has the Right, and seat 1 has the Left. Or your partner could have Left, King left but could get squeezed out of both if you don't lead trump if the Right is on his right and the Ace of trump is on his left. That can't happen if you lead trump.

4) When the action indicates your partner has no trump left. E.G. you called trump, you know your partner is out, now you should lead trump to try to squeeze out an ace from the enemy hoping they throw away the wrong one.

Those are the exceptions that come to mind. The vast majority of the time, one should NOT be leading trump on the 4th trick.

Richardb02
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:34 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:14 pm
RedDuke wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:36 pm
because my partner led a trump on the fourth lead, he cost us a point!
I thought I saw somewhere (maybe here) that you should never lead a trump on the fourth trick, presumably to prevent this situation. Is there a hard and fast rule for this though? I know I almost never lead a trump if I have the lead...
When one should lead trump on the 4th trick:

1) When you have Boss, Boss.

2) When your partner called it and the enemy already has 2 tricks. Lead trump to your partner now. It's your team's best chance of not getting euchred.

3) When the action indicates your partner has nothing but trump left. E.G. your partner called it from the dealer spot and hasn't played a trump yet by the 4th trick. Lead trump to your partner to save your partner from getting euchred those rare times his 2 trump aren't that high. E.G. your partner, the dealer has (Card_A-S) (Card_10-S) left in trump but seat 3 has the Right, and seat 1 has the Left. Or your partner could have Left, King left but could get squeezed out of both if you don't lead trump if the Right is on his right and the Ace of trump is on his left. That can't happen if you lead trump.

4) When the action indicates your partner has no trump left. E.G. you called trump, you know your partner is out, now you should lead trump to try to squeeze out an ace from the enemy hoping they throw away the wrong one.

Those are the exceptions that come to mind. The vast majority of the time, one should NOT be leading trump on the 4th trick.
Great explanations on those 4 advanced exceptions Wes.

Would you agree with this simplification?
If you have power, play it.
In 1 & 4 you have power in your hand. Play the power.
In 2 & 3, power has to be in your partners hand for your team to maximize its score, so lead trump to the power.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:53 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:34 pm
Great explanations on those 4 advanced exceptions Wes.

Would you agree with this simplification?
If you have power, play it.
In 1 & 4 you have power in your hand. Play the power.
In 2 & 3, power has to be in your partners hand for your team to maximize its score, so lead trump to the power.
Idk I think that simplification would be too vague for most people. "Having the power" is too subjective
and potentially confusing. For beginners I would just say never lead trump on the 4th trick unless you have boss boss or the opposing team already has 2 tricks. That should get them playing that spot correctly around 95% of the time.

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