Strong Enough for a Pick Up

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RedDuke
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Strong Enough for a Pick Up

Post by RedDuke » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 am

Would you pick up in this situation? It's a marginal hand, sure, but wondering if this is worth trying.

I'm the dealer holding:

(Card_K-C) (Card_K-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_K-D) (Card_10-D)

Upcard is the (Card_A-C) .

Everybody passed and the call came back to me.

I passed on it since I figured that my partner would have ordered me up if he had anything and this hand probably isn't strong enough to carry much on its own. Even as the dealer, I might have a hard time making a point with this hand, especially if my partner isn't holding the right.

Would you have picked up here? We were down 5-4.



Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:57 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 am
Would you pick up in this situation? It's a marginal hand, sure, but wondering if this is worth trying.

I'm the dealer holding:

(Card_K-C) (Card_K-H) (Card_9-H) (Card_K-D) (Card_10-D)

Upcard is the (Card_A-C) .

Everybody passed and the call came back to me.
This hand is not strong enough to pick up, although I would pick up if my team were up 9-0, 9-1, 9-2, and 9-3 as a dealer donation play to stop a possible seat 1, 2nd rd loner. The reason being, if you pass you have a nothing hand that blocks no suits. Your team is already in danger of losing 2 points anyways on just a call given your holding, so might as well donate and protect the lead by possibly stopping a 4 point loner sweep.

Edit: Other scores to consider donating as the dealer with this hand: 8-0, 8-1, 7-0

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:13 pm

I too would pass and hope my partner calls red. Of course, there is always that risk of a spade lone from first.

Here's a second question, if first were to call alone in spades, on first lead, what would you do? toss the club or split one of the red suits?
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RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:06 pm

Here's a second question, if first were to call alone in spades, on first lead, what would you do? toss the club or split one of the red suits?
I'm honestly not sure. If clubs is the stopper, then the ace will stop it just as well as having the ace-king combination.

On the other side, there's no real reason to keep either of the low red cards too since it's pretty unlikely that a 9 or a 10 will stop the lone.

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:55 am

My thinking was, many lones are tried with a green ace-x as the second suit.

example:

(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_A-S) , (Card_A-D) (Card_Q-D)

From what I've seen, lones with next being the second suit are rare.
If your dreams don’t scare you then they're not big enough

RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:45 pm

Dlan wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:55 am
My thinking was, many lones are tried with a green ace-x as the second suit.

example:

(Card_J-C) (Card_J-S) (Card_A-S) , (Card_A-D) (Card_Q-D)

From what I've seen, lones with next being the second suit are rare.
That's what I figured. Although, in a game last night, I actually made a successful lone sweep while being four-suited. It was a decently strong four-suited hand though:

(Card_J-D) (Card_K-D) (Card_A-C) (Card_A-S) (Card_A-H)

with diamonds as trump.

I will admit that you do make a good point though. I haven't seen many lone attempts with next as the second suit. In the example hand you gave, the (Card_K-D) could stop it if kept to the end. How do you know which green king to keep though?

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:42 pm

At that score, I would pass you have one void and might have one trick with only the K & Ace. Sometimes in euchre you just take your lumps when between a rock and a hard place. If a loner in next, I am saving the King as it is just like an ace.

LONER ATTEMPT IN NEXT:

Many players are under the assumption you should favor saving a doubleton off suit to stop a loner. Statistically, this is incorrect the majority of the time when eldest is going alone. Even with the dealer, it favors a doubleton but not by much. I hate it when I have a king guarded and another king on trick 3. Do you get rid of the King and save a doubleton? Or do you save both King, then you get forced on trick 4 with two kings?

Too many players do not work as a team. The answer is, think ahead, your are going to get squeezed on these Kings. You have to approach Euchre as if you are playing with 10 cards, especially to stop a loner. Stop acting like you can do it all by yourself. You have to work together to stop loners. So the answer is each player on defense has to toss/slough at first opportunity what YOU ARE NOT going to save. Your partner plays first (probably has a trump) and this gives you no information. So here you have to decide quickly with two Doubleton Kings and your other K (which is like an ace, the one you turned down))), to discard either the King of hearts or diamonds. If your partner saves the suit you sloughed - here a queen or ace covers your slough. Sometimes you will be wrong, so be it. Then you have to follow the King with the low heart which says, I am not saving this suit. By 3rd trick, your partner has to slough either of the other two suit that he is not saving. Seldom should both you and your part have the same suit on trick 5. If you do, look at what was sloughed earlier. Even good players get this backwards and fail in communicating on defending against loners.

Faced with this situation, I would dump a king, then save my two kings for last for the end. Especially the suit I turned down for that is most likely the stopper. But you never know for sure.

As a team, you should have two of the three suits covered when eldest goes alone. The King you have to play on trick 4 then becomes an issue except when eldest has a two cards of a suit you have a king. Beware that the King you toss on trick 4 could have been the stopper. It going to be like which door of three (Monty Hall) has the prize.

Irishwolf

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:48 pm

RedDuke wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 am
Would you have picked up here? We were down 5-4.
One more thing. RedDuke do you play on that one euchre app where they have the "go under" option, I.E. if a player has three 10s or 9s they can exchange those cards for the ones in the kitty? If so, then you should pick this marginal hand up down 5-4 if and only if your partner is the first one to go under. It's a gamble but the idea is you're hoping your partner undered into enough clubs and/or off aces for you guys to score a point. And this gamble is certainly worth it given that you block no suits.

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