3rd Seat Order - when to not lead trump?

[irishwolf]

The score is 9 to 9, upcard is KD and your partner orders the dealer.
You hold JC JD TD TH QH at 1st seat.

Is there justification to not leading trump to your partner?

[Wes (aka the legend)]

For a little backstory to this hand, I was the one in 3rd seat who ordered the dealer up with:



My partner lead the representing no trump, no aces. I was like lol I guess we're going set, gg gentlemen. Obviously the hand ended up working out in our favor becuz my partner surprisingly had a lot more help than I thought. I too was puzzled by this development.

[Tbolt65]

No, not when your 3rd seat partner orders. This is not a time to not lead trump. With this hand, or seat configuration.


Tbolt65
Edward

[irishwolf]

Yep had the dealer had the JD AS, you are euchred.

I thought, WTF. Must have been a misclick to not lead the Right?

Next question though, why not wait on a next call?

[Wes (aka the legend)]

Next question though, why not wait on a next call?

My default strategy with this hand is to wait on the Next call at every score except at 9-9. At 9-9, we get no benefit from euchring the dealer, so it becomes a simple question: What are the odds my P has a better 2nd round call than my first round call with Left + 2 + an off ace? I suspect--but do not "know"--that my hand will be better than my P's 2nd round range, therefore I'm calling.

[irishwolf]

It certainly was a good call that time. I would say in general with many hands dealt, 50:50! So many hands will beat the hand you had if your partner has none (35%). If that ace were a doubleton, different story.

But in this situation, you know (or should) that your partner has a heavy dose of 'making next' and you have close to two tricks in next with about the same if you order. Of course he Must call something at 9 to 9.

It was a good call, too bad at 9 to 7, I had to donate.

[Wes (aka the legend)]

It certainly was a good call that time. I would say in general with many hands dealt, 50:50! So many hands will beat the hand you had if your partner has none (35%). If that ace were a doubleton, different story.

But in this situation, you know (or should) that your partner has a heavy dose of 'making next' and you have close to two tricks in next with about the same if you order. Of course he Must call something at 9 to 9.

Knowing my partner will veer towards Next a lot in the 2nd round still doesn't answer my question which I can reformulate a little bit: "Even knowing that my P will veer towards Next in the 2nd rd, what are the odds my team will have a better 2nd round call than my first round call with Left + 2 + an off ace?" I don't know the answer. I'm just guessing, going with faulty human intuition on this. All I know is if I pass, and the dealer passes, and my P calls black I hate my life.

It was a good call, too bad at 9 to 7, I had to donate.

Yeah I saw that. With a bot in first, I would've donated from 3rd up 9-7 with your hand too. Sux that we only had 4 humans for what, 45 minutes? Still hopeful that this game will get more popular in the near future.