Weekly games starting Monday Dec 16, 9 pm

Ask questions, discuss and debate your strategies, euchre polls and more
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Dlan
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Weekly games starting Monday Dec 16, 9 pm

Post by Dlan » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:32 pm

January 21, 2020
Up-dated information on our weekly games, using the World of card games web site and up-loading images to OE can be found at

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=271

=================================================================

These instructions are for those running windows 10/Chrome. Other operating systems/browsers may differ.

Start by going to https://worldofcardgames.com/

If you haven’t already done so, start by creating an account at world of card games. To do so, click the register tab at the top of the screen. There is no cost. Simply fill in the name, password and your email. Then press ‘register’. Although not required, it would be helpful if you used the same handle as you use on the OE forum.

Pressing the [F1] button will bring you to the full screen mode, you may not be able to use full screen later. You may also want to click the ‘hide ad’ at the top right of the screen.

Next, on the green euchre button (see image below), there is a smaller red options button, click that. Your settings should match the image below. Use (change) to change table name.
Image


Then use (more) to add OhioEuchre to the list. You must add OE to your list or you will be unable to see our table. Close both boxes by clicking OK

Image

FYI, You may use the other spots on that list for any other tables you’d like to create. For example, you may have a family table called "Mom and Pop" or whatever.

Image
The big green Euchre button

Click the ‘list of tales’ tab, (lower left corner) and there you will see a list of open tables. Look for OhioEuchre. This will only show while there is open OE table. Once the OE table has 4 players, it will no-longer show on the list. Assuming it is the correct time/day and if you don’t see an OE table, click the green euchre button (as below), to start a new table and wait for the next 3 players to join.

Once a table has been created, there are two ways to get to the table - quickly, by clicking the "Euchre" button, and a little less quickly by clicking in the "list of tables". When a player joins the OE table, they will be seated at the next available seat - #2, #3, or #4, in that order.

After joining a table, you will view the table from the bottom of the screen. Keep this in mind when posting remarks about a hand. Any reference to seats should be Dealer, First seat (eldest), Second seat (dealers partner) and Third seat (pone).

To save a hand for later viewing click the little image to the right of you. (see below) You don’t have very much time to do this, so be quick. The hand will be saved as a text file in your downloads folder “mycomputer > downloads”.

Image

The saved file will look something like this “world-of-card-games-euchre-hand-history-2019-11-26T19-36-05-05_00-6.txt” To replay the hand, double click on this text file. That will open into your text editor. (Notepad unless you have changed it)
Highlight from https:// all the way to the end of file. Press control-c to copy this text. Paste this into your web browser.

Here is more information https://worldofcardgames.blogspot.com/2 ... story.html

I have already posted on how to get an image of the hand into the OE forum.

As I’m late in posting this, lets schedule the first game for a week from tomorrow, Monday Dec 16 at 9:00 pm. (east coast time)

This may all seem confusing at first, but should go smoothly once we get going.



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Post by irishwolf » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:45 pm

Some questions:

How many do we have playing?

What if more than 4 show up or come in later, how do they enter a game?

If there is a post on a particular hand, should there not be some Heading to indicate this?

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:12 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:45 pm
What if more than 4 show up or come in later, how do they enter a game?
That is covered in above post.
irishwolf wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:45 pm
If there is a post on a particular hand, should there not be some Heading to indicate this?
One idea could be end the post heading with "weekly 12-16"

When posting an image, that must be done first as it seems to add the image after any text. You also could cut and paste the image code to where you wanted it to show.

These games may take a week or two to shake out the kinks. If issues do come up, post and together we'll try and find a solution.

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marya
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Post by marya » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:39 am

That was a great explanation of how the site works for "private tables"!

Just want to emphasize that if 4 people show up and are playing a game, and a 5th person shows up, they can just go ahead and start a new table. They'll have to wait for other people to arrive. So, more than one table can be playing at once.

I should comment that whitespace does matter when choosing your private table name. So if one person types in "Ohio Euchre" (with a space between Ohio and Euchre) and another person types in "OhioEuchre" without the space, they won't be able to meet. Be careful and check that if you feel like you're waiting too long. The names are not case sensitive (so "ohioeuchre" is treated the same as "OhioEuchre"). If you're sitting at a table, you can check your private table name by clicking the "table info" link in the lower left corner of the page.

Dlan mentioned multiple private table names. Yes, you can have more than one. The "main" one which is set in your Options area is the one that applies when you "create" a new table. The "extra" ones will allow you to see any tables with those names in the list of tables. You can have up to 4 extra private table names.

There are a couple of other things I'll add:

1) You can use the Euchre "Chat Lobby" to leave public messages. So if you go to the site, you might want to leave a message at the Chat Lobby, and others can check in there, something along the lines of "It's Dec 16 8:45 PM EST and I'm waiting at our private table". Don't metion the private table name, since other people at the site would see that! The "Chat Lobby" is accessible from the red Menu button at the lower right of the big green Euchre button. The "Chat Lobby" details are given in an old blog post: https://worldofcardgames.blogspot.com/2 ... games.html

2) You can also do private messages with other players that you have "liked". The details are in this blog post: https://worldofcardgames.blogspot.com/2 ... aging.html

Since you've also got access to this forum, that's another great way to tell people that you're ready and waiting to get started for your game, of course!

One more thing: just be careful when using the "dislike" button, a red/white x button next to each player. If you click it, it means "I don't like this person and don't want to play with them again". The site won't seat you together in the future. There have been just a few cases where someone clicked this accidentally, and later couldn't find a private table. "Likes" and "dislikes" can be managed, so if you accidentally dislike someone, you can remove it. There's more info in this blog post:
http://worldofcardgames.blogspot.com/20 ... -card.html

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marya
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Post by marya » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:41 am

Oh and I should mention that the 'Hide Ad' widget is there for anyone who finds the ad(s) too annoying or if they interfere with your game in some way. But, the site (and I) rely on ad income to keep running. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't hide the ads, unless you really need to. Thanks!

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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:08 am

Marya,
I suggest making a modification so visitors can come to a table so they can see/observe the cards being played out. Shouldn't be that difficult. It would make this so much more useful.

The 5th and 6th player wouldn't want to be hanging around very long (at least me) waiting for more players show up. I see that as a big issue.

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:10 am

Should set up best 2 of 3 games, losers give up their seat if others are waiting in the lobby.

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marya
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Post by marya » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:58 am

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:08 am
Marya,
I suggest making a modification so visitors can come to a table so they can see/observe the cards being played out. Shouldn't be that difficult. It would make this so much more useful.

The 5th and 6th player wouldn't want to be hanging around very long (at least me) waiting for more players show up. I see that as a big issue.
Hi wildirish,

I'm very sorry, but actually allowing visitors to see the cards of others is a pretty major feature. This is one reason that I haven't added it so far. As it is, I don't make enough money off the site to justify me working full time on it (or even very much at all, anymore, unfortunately - I still do bug fixes, tinker with the bots). I'm lucky if I get to add one major feature per year :/ To give you an idea, I've been working on adding Canasta for about 1 year now, and it's still only about halfway done.

A Euchre game typically lasts 10-15 minutes... is that too long to wait for a game?

One option is to "allow bots" and invite them to play while waiting... but I can imagine that many people don't want to take a bot's seat when a game is in progress.

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marya
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Post by marya » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:02 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:10 am
Should set up best 2 of 3 games, losers give up their seat if others are waiting in the lobby.
Just so it's clear, you won't be waiting in a "lobby". You'll be sitting at a table, waiting for players to join you. When a game finishes, people from the old game do not immediately get taken to a new game. They will have to "get in line" behind anyone else who has already been waiting at a table. The site is designed to try to keep waiting to a minimum.

One more thing to note: if you really hate joining games that are in progress, you will want to check the 'Exclude Games in Progress' Option. By default, when you click the Euchre button, you'll get taken to the oldest table - even if it's a game in progress. This is done to keep games moving along, but the Option is there if you don't like that feature.

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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:36 pm

Sounds like Nidink might be a better option for this!

I think I will wait to get this all ironed out.

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marya
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Post by marya » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:53 am

There are lots of card game sites, no doubt about that! I appreciate people giving World of Card Games a try :)

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Post by Richardb02 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:15 pm

Has anyone gone to World of Card Games tonight?

Wes (aka the legend)
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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:21 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:15 pm
Has anyone gone to World of Card Games tonight?
Yes. It was just me and Dlan, so we played with the bots for a little bit. You all suck and should be ashamed of yourselves!!

Edit: Edward (tbolt65) doesn't suck tho. He's a euchre addict that would probably turn down sex from 1990s Jane March just to play in this game. But he has to work during this time.
Last edited by Wes (aka the legend) on Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Richardb02 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:25 pm

I was there from 950 to 1015. Was the table called OhioEuchre or just Euchre?

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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:49 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:25 pm
I was there from 950 to 1015. Was the table called OhioEuchre or just Euchre?
Table was called Ohio Euchre

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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:40 am

Btw, Dlan if I misplayed any hand or did something dubious and you saved the hand history feel free to post it. I don't mind.

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Post by Tbolt65 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:08 am

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:21 pm
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:15 pm
Has anyone gone to World of Card Games tonight?
Yes. It was just me and Dlan, so we played with the bots for a little bit. You all suck and should be ashamed of yourselves!!

Edit: Edward (tbolt65) doesn't suck tho. He's a euchre addict that would probably turn down sex from 1990s Jane March just to play in this game. But he has to work during this time.
Yeah I would show up to play. I do work Mondays at that time. So that's why I haven't stopped by.

Tbolt65
Edward

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:22 am

Wes, I did scan through the hands, the one misplay I found was on my part, where I played an Ace and shouldn’t have. You played a good game and while I didn’t count win/lost, I think you came out ahead.

I will post a couple of hands just to show the extremes that may pop-up during a game.

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Post by Dlan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:26 am

I've got an e-mail going out to Marya, We may need to change the setting we are using. When I hear back I'll post more

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Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:13 pm

Dlan wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:22 am
Wes, I did scan through the hands, the one misplay I found was on my part, where I played an Ace and shouldn’t have. You played a good game and while I didn’t count win/lost, I think you came out ahead.

I will post a couple of hands just to show the extremes that may pop-up during a game.
I remember one hand where I ordered up my P's bower with a dubious holding down 0-4 I think. We made our point, but I think that's wrong. I ordered up becuz I didn't trust the bot as I had already seen that these bots will pass some biddable hands. If the bot had passed I blocked little to nothing with no place to go in the 2nd round if the action got back to me. So I ordered up the bower with something like Ax in trump + an off ace. I think my logic is fine but once someone is down a lot in this spot--and down 4 is a lot--the fact that they don't trust their partner kinda goes out the window. You need some luck and bad players get loners too, so pass and hope they "have it".

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Post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:45 pm

I was busy at the time but will be there next week. I am not playing against bots though. So I hope we have four at 9pm.

~Irishwolf

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:27 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:15 pm
Has anyone gone to World of Card Games tonight?
Sorry that you were unable to play.
I may have given some incomplete information and will be adding/updating my post so this doesn't happen again.

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Post by irishwolf » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:46 pm

I got on to get use to the World of Card Games, Euchre. It makes me wonder who programs these Bots. You make trump and if the bot had both bowers, they lead trump to Infinity. Pull your trump with no aces, you end up getting euchred.

Or double leads on the same suit at the wrong time. (Among other things) This is why I am not interested in playing with Bots. A lot of dumb stuff.

It also appears the Jacks are the upcards way beyond the frequency of a random deal. If random there should be a Jack come up on the average 1 in 6 hands. I do believe this dealer is more often.

~Irishwolf

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marya
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Post by marya » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:16 pm

Richardb02 - the problem you had was that you'd named your table "OhioEuchre", and not "Ohio Euchre". The site treats those names as being different due to the whitespace. So if you just add 1 white space between "Ohio" and "Euchre", you will have the right table name. I'm glad that Dan and Wes were able to play, and I hope you'll get to join in next time (maybe with IrishWolf).

Regarding the bots: The bots were originally programmed by Robert, the previous owner of the site.

Once I got the site, I made some changes (over time) based on feedback from a few, very helpful players. They were quite patient with me, a non-expert Euchre player. They'd send me hand histories to explain what was being done incorrectly, and I'd go and fix the particular problem that was pointed out to me.

There are a variety of complaints you'll get when playing any type of card game, because different people have different strategies. I have a "go-to" Euchre player that I usually get advice from before I make a change to the bots. I think/hope that these changes have improved the bot strategy over time, but I realize they are still far from perfect. I'm hopeful that this forum will be useful for tweaking the bots. I've had good luck with this approach for the pinochle bots (I think).

I may join in on Monday, but I'm not a very good player, so you may not like that ;)

Regarding the shuffle: The algorithm used for the shuffle is called the Fisher-Yates shuffle, and it's the shuffle that the site has used from the start. You can look it up online. So far as I can tell, it is "the" shuffle which all modern card game sites use, because it has been studied to death. I've examined the shuffle stats in Euchre, including a Chi^2 test - https://worldofcardgames.com/euchre-shu ... -test.html - and they look perfectly good to me. I have my doubts that any computer card game would ever "fix" the deck or program a poor shuffle these days. All I can tell you is I know what the code does. I sometimes get accused of programming the bots to cheat, or programming the shuffle to be unfair. I don't do that.

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Post by irishwolf » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:56 pm

MARYA,

One glitch I saw is that the bots 'double lead' on trump. Example is that if I make trump and partner bot has both bowers (I lead trump) the bot leads both bowers with or with out another trump or having an off suit ace back. In euchre ONE LEAD OF TRUMP IS GENERALLY ENOUGH, especially if your partner called trump.

And if the both on Defense has the Right bower, he leads its. Totally wrong! Not sure who your expert is but needs to re-think.

~Irishwolf

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marya
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Post by marya » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:13 pm

Irishwolf,

Thanks for the info! I'll take a look to see if I can reproduce this issue, and then I'll post about it in a different thread because I don't want to go OT on this thread. I don't know for sure whether these are problems from the original programming or problems that crept in later.

For anyone else reading this: when you notice a problem with the bots, it is most helpful if you download the hand history at the end of the hand and send it to me. I need 1 or more specific cases to run tests against when reprogramming the bots.

Marya

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:00 pm

I just sent you another example. AC was the upcard, 3rd seat orders the Dealer on clubs, Arcee has a club and an AS but instead on 1st trick leads a low Diamond (9d). Must lead trump to 3rd seat who orders.

~Irishwolf

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

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marya
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Post by marya » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:56 am

Super, thank you for the hand history! I'm going to start another thread on this for discussion.
I posted a separate thread about this: 3rd seat orders up right bower.

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:17 am

I heard back from Marya and according to her logs, there were two others that showed up last week. To maintain consistency with our site name, we will be naming the table Ohioeuchre (one word - not case sensitive so ohioeuchre would also work).

This is a change from what I originally suggested.

To avoid those who may play, only to disrupt, no guest players allowed. You will need to register at Marya’s site (https://worldofcardgames.com/) before you can join an Ohioeuchre game. It would be helpful if everyone used the same name as used on the forum.

Once on worldofcardgames, It would be helpful to let others know you are here. This is done using the Euchre Chat Lobby function, accessible by clicking ‘Menu’ on the lower right side of the green Euchre button. A simple message such as ‘OE’ should be enough. A post of ‘someone left..’ just means they left the chat box, not the site. To exit chat use ‘leave lobby’, at the bottom of the page. This beings you back to the home page.

You may join an OE game one of two ways. Clicking the green button will seat you at an open spot. If you’d like the option of picking your seat, do not click the green euchre button; instead go to the ‘table list’ that is on the lower left side of screen. To find our table, look under the euchre heading. You will need to move the cursor down the list, over the first character, until you see Ohioeuchre. This is our table. The person that started the table will always fill this first spot. The next character slot would their LHO. The second position would be the table starter’s partner with the last spot going to the RHO.
A “R” means that seat is currently held by a registered played.

A “B” means that seat is currently held by a bot. Click the B and you will join the game at that seat.

If you don’t see an OE table listed, return to the home page and click the green button to set a new table. Wait for other players to join.

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marya
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Post by marya » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:38 am

Dlan's post pretty much covers it. I just want to emphasize that you should set up your private table Options as he described in the first post of this thread:
Image
Make sure the "Name:" section reads Ohioeuchre (one word, no whitespace). You will have to change this if you set it to "Ohio Euchre" last week.

I'll be keeping an eye on the site on Monday, so if there's an open spot and people are waiting, I might jump in, but I'll leave if someone doesn't want me as a partner (I don't mind, I know I'm not great!).

One more thing: if you hesitate to use your email address to sign up, I never spam or even contact people. The email address is used in case you need to reset your password at any point. There are advantages to registering: your Options will be remembered, you can download hand histories (guests can't do this), you can message people, you can use the chat lobbies. I encourage people to register because I think the site is friendlier when people are "recognizable" by their user name.

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Post by Dlan » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:26 am

Image

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marya
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Post by marya » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:26 pm

Fun playing with you all this evening! We had 5 people, nice :) It's approaching 9:30 PM here on the east coast and I need to get ready for bed... Hope to catch you next Monday!
Marya

irishwolf
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Post by irishwolf » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:50 pm

You did alright. Should have stuck around, we had to use the Bot for several games.

What can be done when there is five or six players as letting those know at the table they are in the Lobby. We need to allow others to enter a table, EASILY! I don't mind giving up my seat at the end of any game.

~Irishwolf

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Post by irishwolf » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:29 pm

marya,

Here is another hand that the Bot is programmed incorrectly. Bot wins a trick with a spade (same even if winning it with an ace), has the Left but does not lead it to his partner who called spades trump. This Fooling your partner. Should be changed.

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

Irishwolf

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marya
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Post by marya » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:04 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:50 pm
You did alright. Should have stuck around, we had to use the Bot for several games.
Thank you! I'm kind of bad at Euchre. I like it, but I haven't absorbed all the strategy. I usually go to bed between 9-10, so the game time is a bit late for me. I will try to play, but can't always guarantee I'll be there.
irishwolf wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:50 pm
What can be done when there is five or six players as letting those know at the table they are in the Lobby. We need to allow others to enter a table, EASILY! I don't mind giving up my seat at the end of any game.

~Irishwolf
I definitely suggest that people do two things before sitting down at their table:
1) Post here at the forum something like "It's 9 PM EST and I'm going to our private table".
2) Post the same thing at the Euchre Chat Lobby at World of Card Games.
3) Then just go take a seat at your table. If you look at the list of tables and don't see your private table with an open seat, but you see people have registered an intent to play, it most likely means that a game is in progress.
The other option is just tell everyone to meet in the Euchre Chat Lobby. More than 4 players can gather in there, and there's chat, so you can discuss what you want to do. Be aware that your chats stick to the Chat Lobby, so someone you don't know might see it - so be careful what you say.

Whether you want to wait in the Chat Lobby, or just go to a table and start playing with bots, depends on your nature. If you hate bots and would rather wait for humans, it may be better to go to the Lobby. But if you don't care and just want to play, then it's better for you to sit down at a table and invite bots.

I think the main thing is to get agreement from all the people who are interested in playing, and then stick to that. Whether it's jumping in a table and starting a game, meeting in the chat lobby, or whatever you decide.

If everyone "registers" that they intend to play as in (1) and (2) above, then everyone will know what to expect. If I see that there are 5 people who intend to play, then I'll know that I'm the 6th. I will take a look at the list of tables - in theory, I should see a table with one person sitting there, because there are 4 people playing and 1 person waiting.

So I can just go sit down at the open table. Then we can wait, or invite bots. If everyone hates bots, then just don't invite bots. Wait for the game in progress to finish.

When the current ongoing game finishes, the quickest players will get seated at your table. Any players who just finished their game but weren't quick enough can sit down at a table and wait for the new game to finish, etc.

Usually Euchre games take 10-15 minutes max, so you shouldn't be waiting long. If you're at a table and feel like you've been waiting too long, you can always click the "table info" link if you want to check that your private table name is correct. Now that 4 people have played at this table, it's assured that your table name is correct, so I don't see any problems with that in the future.

One thing you can also do is just post updates on the forum here and/or the lobby at WoCG. Then people can glance at the forum and look to see what's going on. If you're waiting, you can post "Guys I'm waiting at a table, where is everyone??" and (hopefully) people will see that and respond.

Marya

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Post by marya » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:07 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:29 pm
Here is another hand that the Bot is programmed incorrectly. Bot wins a trick with a spade (same even if winning it with an ace), has the Left but does not lead it to his partner who called spades trump. This Fooling your partner. Should be changed.
Ouch. Thank you! I've added to my issue tracker.

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Post by irishwolf » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:27 pm

Marya,

None of us are totally familiar with your site. Good feedback on my question. I think having OE up at the same time is also good so we know who on line at your sight.
Don, take the lead and decide which approach is best when having more than 4 players. We need more to join on Monday.

Irishwolf

Richardb02
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Post by Richardb02 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:28 am

Maybe we should issue the “Ohio Euchre Challenge.” Play our best players Monday evenings at 9PM EST at WOCG, url.

The internet may pick up “Euchre Challenge” and create interest outside of OE. Perhaps we can post our challenge on the Chat Lobby at WoCG.

It could drive up traffic for OE and WoCG. What do you think?

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Dlan
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Post by Dlan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:22 pm

I like the idea. Right now, trying to work out the kinks and get this running smoothly. But after that

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Post by Richardb02 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:33 pm

Thinking about your concern about needing to work the bugs out may have lead me to the solution. We need more than one table, so create OhioEuchre1, OhioEuchre2, maybe even 3 and 4 to convey a message that we expect. Then no one is waiting for a game.

We may even be able to create OhioEuchreNoBots as the lead table and OhioEuchreBot1, Bot2, etc. for overflow. They may require a work around. Perhaps Mayra can gift us guidance.

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Post by Dlan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:17 pm

I have a reversed post written, just waiting for Mayra to look it over.

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marya
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Post by marya » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:55 am

Richardb02 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:33 pm
Thinking about your concern about needing to work the bugs out may have lead me to the solution. We need more than one table, so create OhioEuchre1, OhioEuchre2, maybe even 3 and 4 to convey a message that we expect. Then no one is waiting for a game.

We may even be able to create OhioEuchreNoBots as the lead table and OhioEuchreBot1, Bot2, etc. for overflow. They may require a work around. Perhaps Mayra can gift us guidance.
Hi Richard,

My advice would be to keep things simple by everyone using the same private table name: OhioEuchre. Let me explain a little:

Imagine how you'd set these games up in real life. You have a big building, and arrive at the door, where a concierge greets you. You whisper to the concierge: "Seat me at OhioEuchre". The concierge brings you to a room where there's a table with 4 seats, and you sit down and wait. Eventually, 3 other people join in the same manner, and you start to play cards.

While you're playing, a 5th person comes to the door and says "Seat me at OhioEuchre". The concierge brings you to a new room with 4 seats. You wait for a while (there are 5 players in the building and 4 are playing a game). The original game finishes. The people from that game queue up at the concierge who brings them one at a time to the 5th person's table. Once 3 people join that 5th person, their game starts. And ooops, the last person in the queue is sent to an empty room where they have to wait.

This basically describes how the site works whenever a bunch of people use the same private table name. Hopefully it's clear how the site tries to make sure that everyone waits as little as possible. The site is designed to minimize waiting if possible.

Now imagine if you had 2 different private tables. The first person to arrive says "Seat me at OhioEuchre" and the second person says "OhioEuchre2". Now we've got 2 tables, and the remaining people arrive and may split up between the 2 tables. And then everyone sits around waiting because there are only 5 players, and 2 people are at OhioEuchre2 and 3 people are at OhioEuchre. Not good! That can happen when you use multiple private table names.

So to be clear: when a non-integer multiple of 4 players all want to play at the same private table, there will always be waiting. If there are exactly 4 or 8 or 12 players, you can have them all playing at the same time, and at the same table, because there can be more than 1 private table named OhioEuchre in progress at the same time. But if there are 5 players, then naturally 4 will be playing, and 1 will be waiting. If there are 15 players, then there will be 12 people at games in progress, but 3 people waiting for a 4th to join.

Hopefully this example makes things clear, but if there are any further questions (from you or anyone else), feel free to post back and I will respond.

Marya

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Post by irishwolf » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:48 am

One thing I did not like is the seating after each game was random. If you wanted to do 2 of 3 games, this prevents that.

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Post by Richardb02 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am

Thank you for the visual Marya It helps a lot. I agree that additional tables won't solve our issues.

I have tested the first steps on my iPad as well as PC just prior to my post. I am properly signed in. I have previously clicked on "Options" in the Euchre rectangle. Effectively, I have left a card at the Concierge desk that I want to play Euchre, with Registered Players, Bots OK, No STD, at a table named Ohioeuchre. I click OK, I am back at the Lobby. Q1. if I now click on the green euchre rectangle, the Concierge is summoned and I am taken to a euchre table to wait for other players. I have the ability to chat with players as they arrive. If I want, I can start the game with robots, but I choose to wait. Q2. So 2 more players arrive and we chat for a while. Unknown to us, 4 players were already playing. They finish, and the Concierge brings 1 of the 4 players to our table and we start our game. The other 3 players are taken to another table to wait for the next player. Q3

Q3 Is my visual accurate?

Q2 if I or new players and I choose to play with bots, is the visual the same.

Q1 To me it is nonintuitive to ask for a table and then be sent back to the building entrance to wait. If this step is necessary for technical reasons, fine, please just explain the extra step in any instructions. Please consider adding, at the bottom of the Options Box, "You will be returned to the Main Page. To be seated at your table press the Green Euchre rectangle." If its unnecessary consider removing this step.I think this is the problem! On December 23, I never pressed the green Euchre button and never got to the table. On December 30 after going to chat, checking the list of tables, being frustrated, I clicked the green button and I was in! Can other OE's identify with my scenario?

So let's say the first several times I have attempted to play at the ohioeuchre table, and I am back at the lobby. I click on "list of tables." I have never seen a table marked ohioeuchre. Is it all bad timing on my part?

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Post by marya » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:51 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am
Q1. if I now click on the green euchre rectangle, the Concierge is summoned and I am taken to a euchre table to wait for other players.
That is correct. But it's also correct that you may be taken to a table that already has players seated at it; if there's already a table with players, you will join them.
Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am
Q2. So 2 more players arrive and we chat for a while. Unknown to us, 4 players were already playing. They finish, and the Concierge brings 1 of the 4 players to our table and we start our game. The other 3 players are taken to another table to wait for the next player.
Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am
Q3 Is my visual accurate?
Yes, that's right, assuming that (at least) one of the players from that other table actually click to play a new game.
Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am
Q2 if I or new players and I choose to play with bots, is the visual the same.
Yes. There's a tricky point here. If you want to play with "replaceable bots", always click the little banner at your right side which says "Click here to start game with robots. Humans may replace them later". That's the way to start your game quickly, and also allow a new player to kick the bot off the table, replacing it.
Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am
Q1 To me it is nonintuitive to ask for a table and then be sent back to the building entrance to wait.
I'm not sure if it's clear, but once your Options are saved, you never have to save them again. So, you only ever have to click the Options button once. The red panel opens, you edit and save whatever Options you want, and from then on, every time you click the green Euchre button, you will be taken to a table with your Options applied. This is because you are registered. Your Options are saved with your user name in your account.

Also, that's why you aren't instantly taken to a table when saving your Options. Not everyone wants to go straight to a table after saving Options; some people just make a change and then go look elsewhere. And people aren't editing Options most of the time, so it's a minor step.
Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:45 am
So let's say the first several times I have attempted to play at the ohioeuchre table, and I am back at the lobby. I click on "list of tables." I have never seen a table marked ohioeuchre. Is it all bad timing on my part?
I do believe it has been bad timing. There are a small number of people playing with this private table - I think, usually 4-5. You were just the odd man out. I know of other private tables at the site where people play all day long and I'm a member; if I come to the site and click the list of tables, I will frequently see a spot open.

My guess is that until a few other people join in, it will be rare to see the ohioeuchre table in the list of tables. Most of the time the table will be filled with humans and there will be a game in progress.

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Post by marya » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:53 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:48 am
One thing I did not like is the seating after each game was random. If you wanted to do 2 of 3 games, this prevents that.
Irishwolf, when you say that the seating after each game was random... are you aware that you can choose your partner by using the list of tables (usually)? If you're really picky about your partner, or want to play with a different partner, that can work. As long as there is agreement about who is your partner, it should be possible. All the people would have to agree and be comfortable using the list of tables to pick their partner.

Marya

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Post by irishwolf » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:35 pm

You would think when you finish a game, the same seating would still apply?

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Post by marya » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:39 am

irishwolf wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:35 pm
You would think when you finish a game, the same seating would still apply?
The game seating always puts people in seat 1, 2, 3, and 4 in that order, if they come in via the green Euchre button. If a table has spots open, then you can always use the "list of tables" to take a specific seat that you want. People do not "stick" to their seats in any way; I'm not sure what you mean by "the same seating"?

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Post by irishwolf » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:48 am

Just unusual if you play a game, seating is reshuffled. In all the sites I have ever been to, you remain in the same seat. Only a new partner if he leaves.

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Post by marya » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:38 pm

The site was designed to get you to a seat as quickly as possible and to avoid waiting. So it's not optimized to seat you with the same player repeatedly. I am not sure how other sites would detect a person leaving the site; it's actually not so easy to know when someone is gone definitely. Someone might be "at the site" in the sense that the browser is open and they are sitting on the home page, but the person has walked away to take a long lunch.

Some people do have a strong preference for a particular partner, and that is why I added the list of tables.

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