How to play 2 trump + 2 Aces

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BrianP
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 7:39 pm

How to play 2 trump + 2 Aces

Unread post by BrianP » Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:38 pm

This site says to bid in first seat with trump + Aces = 4. But when I bid with only 2 trump, I don’t know what to lead. Should I draw trump with only 2? If so, should I lead a high or low trump? Or should I lead the safest Ace (e.g. green singleton)? Or even throw off a low off-suit?



jblowery
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:43 am

Unread post by jblowery » Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:13 pm

Lead trump if/when you get the lead. Otherwise, the ace(s) will get picked off

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1542
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:01 pm

BrianP wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:38 pm
This site says to bid in first seat with trump + Aces = 4. But when I bid with only 2 trump, I don’t know what to lead. Should I draw trump with only 2? If so, should I lead a high or low trump? Or should I lead the safest Ace (e.g. green singleton)? Or even throw off a low off-suit?
There's not enough info here to properly answer your question. Jblowery's response is good tho. Once you make the call you gotta lead trump, but there are ALOT of spots where you SHOULD NOT make this type of order. Specifically, there's a HUGE difference between ordering up the enemy's upcard from Seat 1-first round vs making this type of call in the 2nd round. Most of the time in the former case you should pass. Let's do some fun examples. For all hands you're in seat one, the score is 0-0 and the upcard is the (Card_9-H)

1) (Card_Q-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_A-D) (Card_9-D) (Card_A-C)

You should pass this hand in the first round with the intention of calling Next in the 2nd. This hand is too weak to order up the enemy giving them a trump + a void. In the 2nd round you should call diamonds and lead the 9D and take it from there. Obviously this is a marginal call but I'm not passing in the 2nd round in this spot if I don't block reverse Next. This is example of making a good defensive call as the risk of passing outweighs the risk of getting euchred.

2) (Card_Q-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_A-S) (Card_9-S) (Card_A-C)

Same advice as above for round 1. Pass. What to do in the 2nd round is more controversial. I'd still call Next with no trump and lead the cleanest Ace, AC, becuz I'm not passing in the 2nd rd when I don't block reverse Next. I'm not even sure if a good simulator would support this call and wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. Just telling you what I would do.

Say you're down with making a good defensive call in the 2nd rd but you wanted to call spades instead. Is that call really that bad vs making a Next call with no trump? I would say I'm totally fine with jumping the fence and making that super marginal spade call. Both calls--Next vs spades--are super marginal. I have no idea which is actually better according to a credible simulation but I wouldn't be surprised at all if spades edged out diamonds. What's most important to me is understanding WHY you're making this type of call (DEFENSE).

A lot may also depend on your partner. If you know your partner correctly bags heavy from the 3rd seat-1st round then that means a Next call is even more likely to hit him. An interesting simulation would be what's best between:

1) 1st rd hearts call, lead TH
2) Bag 1st call Next, lead AC
3) Bag 1st call Spades, lead 9S

3) (Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_K-C) (Card_A-S)

This hand has been simulated by Ray and the result is uncontroversial. The correct way to play this hand is to go alone in hearts but the key to getting the best results is you must kamikaze lead the AH after you've led your JH EVEN IF the Left is still in the wild. This is a special case hand. I play a lot of euchre hands per year and this spot only came up once. I went alone, led the Right. The Left did not come out but I led the AH anyways. The dealer had the Left so I lost control of the hand but he led back to one of my off aces and I still got the point.

4)

(Card_A-H) (Card_J-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_K-C) (Card_A-D)

I think with this configuration the correct strategy is to bag in the first round with the intention of going alone in diamonds in the 2nd, leading the JH followed by the AD if you still have the lead. Sometimes someone will hold back the Right on the first lead but don't worry about that. Gotta lead both your trump if you get the chance and then hope for the best.

5)

(Card_J-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_9-S)

This hand is off topic based on the hand type you brought up since we only have 1 off Ace, but still informative. I believe Ray simulated this hand type and the correct play was to call in the first round, lead the Right and take it from there.

6) (Card_J-H) (Card_10-H) (Card_A-C) (Card_9-C) (Card_9-D)

With this hand we should now bag in the first round and call Next. The primary reason we made that marginal heart call in hand 5) was becuz we had no where to go in the 2nd round. With this hand we now have enough of a 2nd round call, L+1+A in Next, allowing us to avoid the marginal 1st rd call and bag instead. Once we do call Next what should we lead? I don't recall what the simulator said but with an off ace to protect, I would lead the 9D. Although when I have a singleton green off ace I have been experimenting with leading that instead. But anytime I have a doubleton green Ace or the turned down suit ace I'm leading trump even at the risk of unguarding my L+1.

sdu754
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:15 am

Unread post by sdu754 » Thu May 02, 2024 12:53 pm

jblowery wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:13 pm
Lead trump if/when you get the lead. Otherwise, the ace(s) will get picked off
This is the correct answer. Lead Trump to make your Aces good. Even if you lead Trump on the first lead, you still have one left and two Aces.

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