3/12 Fri Tried to sandbag,but...

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Dlan
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3/12 Fri Tried to sandbag,but...

Unread post by Dlan » Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:22 pm




irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:52 pm

This from the Dealer position is totally LAUGHABLE! Or was that a misclick? lol
You have the Right bower and two with a void and you Pass? In next now you have the Left guarded, no voids, no aces. Certainly can't realistically get a Euchre and if your partner calls a Sweep is doubtful two. And if playing STD, lucky to get out alive.

Who ever does that can't even be considered an average player, IMO. Get your point. DIAMONDS is the call!

IRISH

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:26 pm

The only thing interesting about the Hand is not that the Dealer passed on a Biddable hand (what Commandment was that?), but what Eldest led to the first trick - the JC.

Is that the proper lead when you also have the AD? What are you afraid of? I think euchre is a game that 1) you should not play bagging game as a constant baseline strategy, 2) you have play the best line statistically, and 3) you can't play SCARED. I see all three happening in this hand.

So here goes as food for thought:

Leading the JC, a junk or are you setting up the QC (if so you did not use it like could have?): Is it the time and place to lead junk considering your hand strength? What's your strategy? Who is likely to win that trick? If S2/S4 has AC & xC with a 2nd lead of clubs are you not more vulnerable to get euchred? I suggest there are fewer ways to get euchred and better to score a point by 1.) lead the JH, 2.) then lead your AD. For a bagger to cause real trouble, he must have 3 trumps or each Opponent to have 2 trumps each. This is Next, and you have a partner, lead the JH if you have an Ace to follow. What's the Harm? What's the payoff?

Actually, the way I see it, S1/S3 gave their opponents every opportunity to Euchre them. It's like, go ahead I will give you a break - Euchre me so the game is closer. S1 leads incorrect, IMO. Then the play of S3? And the play of S1 when he won the AD trick - why not lead the JH then the QC? After all when S4 won the trick with the KC, if he had the AC he would have led it? This not Rocket science!

Question for S3, why would S3 lay off the 2nd lead of Clubs? You only have one trick in and your your partner is begging for you to trump high. Ace/King you will force a bower. Your partner probably has the Left is how you must play your position. Not slough!

Then when S4 wins the KC trick - S1 does not want trump led - maybe you should have led the QH or JD? If you are going to get a Euchre, you need Help! Instead a Diamond is led - who do you think will have those diamonds? Your partner throw off a Spade, how did you read that one?

Are there takeaways from this hand?

IRISH

Wes (aka the legend)
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Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:42 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:52 pm
This from the Dealer position is totally LAUGHABLE! Or was that a misclick? lol
You have the Right bower and two with a void and you Pass? In next now you have the Left guarded, no voids, no aces. Certainly can't realistically get a Euchre and if your partner calls a Sweep is doubtful two. And if playing STD, lucky to get out alive.

Who ever does that can't even be considered an average player, IMO. Get your point. DIAMONDS is the call!

IRISH
Yep, never pass R+2 even if one had a euchre hand is a rock solid rule of thumb. In fact calling it a "rule of thumb" is selling it short cuz I can't think of one exception.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:23 pm

irishwolf wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:26 pm
The only thing interesting about the Hand is not that the Dealer passed on a Biddable hand (what Commandment was that?), but what Eldest led to the first trick - the JC.

Is that the proper lead when you also have the AD? What are you afraid of? I think euchre is a game that 1) you should not play bagging game as a constant baseline strategy, 2) you have play the best line statistically, and 3) you can't play SCARED. I see all three happening in this hand.

So here goes as food for thought:

Leading the JC, a junk or are you setting up the QC (if so you did not use it like could have?): Is it the time and place to lead junk considering your hand strength? What's your strategy? Who is likely to win that trick? If S2/S4 has AC & xC with a 2nd lead of clubs are you not more vulnerable to get euchred? I suggest there are fewer ways to get euchred and better to score a point by 1.) lead the JH, 2.) then lead your AD. For a bagger to cause real trouble, he must have 3 trumps or each Opponent to have 2 trumps each. This is Next, and you have a partner, lead the JH if you have an Ace to follow. What's the Harm? What's the payoff?
Yep, clear bad lead by S1. Gotta lead the Right followed the AD. If I recall correctly, Ray's simulator also backs that up.
irishwolf wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:26 pm
Actually, the way I see it, S1/S3 gave their opponents every opportunity to Euchre them. It's like, go ahead I will give you a break - Euchre me so the game is closer. S1 leads incorrect, IMO. Then the play of S3? And the play of S1 when he won the AD trick - why not lead the JH then the QC?

After all when S4 won the trick with the KC, if he had the AC he would have led it? This not Rocket science!
Yep, based on hand reading the QC is boss. Although in an amateur game I would not feel safe at all with that assumption but thats an excellent deduction in the Monday/Friday games. With 2 effective boss cards S1 should be leading the Right on trick 3.
irishwolf wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:26 pm
Question for S3, why would S3 lay off the 2nd lead of Clubs? You only have one trick in and your your partner is begging for you to trump high. Ace/King you will force a bower. Your partner probably has the Left is how you must play your position. Not slough!
Yep, a double lead by the maker before trump has been led is a clear signal to his P to trump high. S3 makes a critical mistake. Luckily it didn't burn his team this time.
irishwolf wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:26 pm
Then when S4 wins the KC trick - S1 does not want trump led - maybe you should have led the QH or JD? If you are going to get a Euchre, you need Help! Instead a Diamond is led - who do you think will have those diamonds? Your partner throw off a Spade, how did you read that one?

Are there takeaways from this hand?

IRISH
What should S4 lead on trick 2 is the most interesting aspect of the hand to me. When S2 plays off on the first lead he most likely has (in no particular order):

1) No trump

2) Bare Right/R+1

3) A-X in trump

S4 won the first trick so he shouldn't be scared to unguard his Left as the enemy can't get 2 pts. If S2, his P, has the Right, leading the QH leads to an instant euchre. If S2 has A-X in trump, S4 leading the QH also likely leads to a euchre. And if S2 has no trump, leading the QH is highly unlikely to hurt S4's team, but it could still possibly help those times S2 has 1-2 off aces.

Conclusion: After winning the first trick, the best play for S4 is to lead the QH.

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