Monday Night Hand#2

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Tbolt65
Posts: 598
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Monday Night Hand#2

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:34 pm

Seat 3 get's euchred


Tbolt65
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jspectre
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:04 am

Unread post by jspectre » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:58 pm

I think this is a mental mistake. Seat 3 is straight up euchred if the dealer holds both bowers, a small trump, and an ace, there's no getting around that. So, go ahead and lead the KS on turn 3 to take away the 9s you know he is still holding, and give yourself a much better chance to secure the point.

Richardb02
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:08 pm

I was going to post this hand, but my iPad keyboard died.

I would have ordered this R1S3 hand 6 months ago, but now I consider it too weak, Note, the score is low and inconsequential.

It is so close though that I would order a Singleton Green (Reverse Next) Ace. I also wanted to create a discussion because this hand reflects the forum research and discussion about R1S3 orders.

What is your current thinking on this particular hand?

Secondly, what if the R1S3hand was
(Card_A-S) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_A-H) (Card_9-D)
with the same (Card_9-S) Up Card?

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:50 am

jspectre wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:58 pm
I think this is a mental mistake. Seat 3 is straight up euchred if the dealer holds both bowers, a small trump, and an ace, there's no getting around that. So, go ahead and lead the KS on turn 3 to take away the 9s you know he is still holding, and give yourself a much better chance to secure the point.
I agree. S3 can actually hand read his way out of this one. If S4 had JJ9 in trump, he would probably just lead the other bower on 2nd street followed by the AH for the automatic euchre. So when S4 does not lead the Right on 2nd street, but instead leads the AH, that strongly suggests S4 does NOT have the Right. And since S3 knows S4 still has the 9 of trump Left, S3 should lead the KS on 3rd street to clean out S4 and then lead the AC.

You put it more eloquently: If S4 started with JJ9, S3 is euchred no matter what he does, so optimal strategy for S3 is to assume the Right is buried and take it from there, I.E. lead the KS followed by the AC.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:55 am

Richardb02 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:08 pm
I was going to post this hand, but my iPad keyboard died.

I would have ordered this R1S3 hand 6 months ago, but now I consider it too weak, Note, the score is low and inconsequential.

It is so close though that I would order a Singleton Green (Reverse Next) Ace. I also wanted to create a discussion because this hand reflects the forum research and discussion about R1S3 orders.

What is your current thinking on this particular hand?

Secondly, what if the R1S3hand was
(Card_A-S) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_A-H) (Card_9-D)
with the same (Card_9-S) Up Card?
What we have discovered so far with the samples we've run is this:

(Card_A-S) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_A-H) (Card_9-H)

(Card_9-S) upcard

is a call.

And even:

(Card_Q-S) (Card_10-S) (Card_9-S) (Card_A-H) (Card_9-H)

(Card_A-S) upcard

is a call.

I have not tested the OP's hand of:

(Card_A-S) (Card_K-S) (Card_Q-S) (Card_10-D) (Card_A-C)

(Card_9-S) upcard.

I feel strongly that it's a pass except at a close out score (9-9 or up 9-X where X = 7 or below). I would bet a lot of money that passing has a higher Expected outcome than calling. But I guess we don't really know until it's put to the test.

irishwolf
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:00 am

S3 got your point, JUST NOT PLAYED PROPERLY. You knew the 9S was the up card?

Unless the Jack is up that is a order all day long.

IRISHWOLF

irishwolf
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:02 am

S3 got your point, JUST NOT PLAYED PROPERLY. You knew the 9S was the up card?

Unless the Jack is up that is a order all day long. Dealer has the other Jack, SO WHAT! Dealer has to have three trumps to beat you - 16%.

IRISHWOLF

Richardb02
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:25 pm

Thanks Wes for the R1S3 updates.

Thanks Irish for your insights.

I will be loosening my R1S3 orders and strengthening my 3 trump assumptions thanks to the sharing of information on the OE forum. I also have a greater understanding of card play from jspectre's observation. Great discussion!

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