The Canadian Variant Affect on The Art of a Next call

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AdamJohnston
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:07 am

The Canadian Variant Affect on The Art of a Next call

Post by AdamJohnston » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:34 am

Hello All,

Interested in any and all feedback here. I play in Canada where the rules are the same except for one major variant: If you order up your partner, you have to go alone.

My question is how much does this affect on the success of calling next? My logic is that if the dealer's partner must go alone, they may have a strong hand in the flipped up card's colour but not strong enough to go alone. Thus by bidding next suit with a weak hand (just because it is next) you are very prone to be euchred with a strong opposition hand from the dealer's partner. Calling next discussed here: https://ohioeuchre.com/E_next_example1.php

My hypothesis is that calling next is still a good strategy (because you know the dealer isn't strong in that colour) but not as successful as it is in other parts of the world.

If this has been discussed somewhere else, please let me know!

Adam



RedDuke
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:53 pm

AdamJohnston wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:34 am
Hello All,

Interested in any and all feedback here. I play in Canada where the rules are the same except for one major variant: If you order up your partner, you have to go alone.

My question is how much does this affect on the success of calling next? My logic is that if the dealer's partner must go alone, they may have a strong hand in the flipped up card's colour but not strong enough to go alone. Thus by bidding next suit with a weak hand (just because it is next) you are very prone to be euchred with a strong opposition hand from the dealer's partner. Calling next discussed here: https://ohioeuchre.com/E_next_example1.php

My hypothesis is that calling next is still a good strategy (because you know the dealer isn't strong in that colour) but not as successful as it is in other parts of the world.

If this has been discussed somewhere else, please let me know!

Adam
Adam,

My understanding of that rule is that you only have to go alone if you're ordering first round and your partner is the dealer.

Calling next is done second round by first seat. Dealer would be your opponent in that situation, so there's no requirement to go alone.

Don't call next if your partner is the dealer. You call reverse next if you have a reasonably decent hand in the opposite color.

AdamJohnston
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:07 am

Post by AdamJohnston » Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:00 pm

Apologies for the miscommunication.

Let me expand with an example.

1. The dealer is to my right and turned up an Ace of Hearts.
2. Everyone passes.
3. I'm up first, and traditional advice would suggest I make it Diamonds (calling next). What this doesn't account for is that the player to my left (the dealer's partner) may have a very strong red hand but not good enough to go alone (in Canadian rules, if you order up your partner, you have to go alone). For example, the player to my left may very well have Red Bowers.

The topic isn't around the game play but rather the strategy of calling next on weak hands due to the fact that the dealer's partner may be strong in that colour (but not strong enough to go alone)

Does that make sense?

Richardb02
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Richardb02 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:45 pm

Hi Adam, thank you for joining Ohio Euchre and venturing a post.

Let me try to clarify that what you are saying matches what RedDuke is saying.

The Canadian Variant is that if you are S2 (Seat 2, the Dealer’s Partner, the only player who can order up his Partner), and you order S4 (the Dealer), in Round 1, then you must go alone. Does that make sense?

So you are asking, if you are in S1, R2 (Seat 1, Round 2), should you adjust the guidance of Calling Next because S2 may have passed on a very strong hand because of the Canadian Variant? Does that reflect your question accurately?

Assuming that I have understood correctly, then I agree with your thinking. The Ohio Euchre (and Hoyle) teaching about the power of S1 R2 Next is reduced significantly by the Canadian Variant. I cannot comment on how much its power is reduced. Hopefully we have a reader with a significant amount of experience with the Canadian Variant.

AdamJohnston
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:07 am

Post by AdamJohnston » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:58 pm

Thanks for clarifying Richard. That is exactly right.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:05 pm

I agree with what you're saying Adam. Next calls wont work quite as often under the Canadian variant becuz S2's range will be stronger then under normal euchre. That said I still would not adjust my S1, 2nd Rd strategy of always calling something--veering towards Next--when I don't block reverse Next, at most scores. However I would not be surprised at all if certain marginal +EV Next calls turned negative under the Canadian Variant. This is where we would need a euchre simulator to tease those hands out.

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