GOING ALONE AT 8 - REVISITED

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irishwolf
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GOING ALONE AT 8 - REVISITED

Unread post by irishwolf » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:59 am

I reread what OE says about going alone at 8. I proposed that one should take your partner along at 8 when you are the DEALER. This website recommends not taking your partner along. There was one example with Eldest going alone which I agree with but Eldest is not the dealer and I do agree.

However let's look at the two Examples cited on OE recommend not taking your partner along. The example 2, the Dealer has JS KS QS AD AH 9H discarded. S2 the dealer's partner has KH QH JH 10H JC (THE LEFT). Note also that S1 leads the 9D, and S2 trumps with the Left and leads from 4 hearts while the dealer has the AH and discarded the 9H. That is all six hearts. This is a terrible hand to provide proof that taking your partner along should not be done.

So what is the statistical evidence this is the correct supporting data? With the dealer having two hearts, there are only four (4) remaining. There is only 1 hand out of 8568 hands possible of 18 unknown cards that has all four hearts. But there are also four trumps remaining when the dealer has 3. So out of 8568 hands we now have only four (4) possible hands. 4 divided by 8568 is a very small percentage. This is not sufficient as supporting evidence as cited on OE. What about all the rest of the 8564. So you MUST look at all the possible hands?

Additionally, it is not recommended in general to trump a suit and lead from a hand of four cards of kind (one suit) as there are only two remaining. It will get trumped the majority of the time. Leave it alone is my recommendation.

Let's now look at the other example #3 where the JC is the UPCARD, & Dealer has 10C QC JS KS. His partner at S2 has the AS KC KD JD 9D while S1 holds 9C AC QD 10D 10H. The 10H is led and S2 trumps with KC and leads the AS and the march is foiled. The best strategy for a sweep would have been go 2nd hand low and not trump the heart, slough a diamond. Since S2 had a void and a trump it is quite unlikely S3 would also be void based on the fact that S1 only had one heart. This is provided as support to not take your along. I am okay here with not taking your partner along as who has the AS is what is important. At best it is marginal to go alone. However, the dealer's partner having the AS is of no help at all but you do not know that as the dealer. This too says nothing about all the other 8568 hands possible where Eldest is more likely to lead an off suit ace if not going alone. Holding the ace by S1 and leading one of the other two suits leaves the dealer's off suit Ace more vulnerable to 3rd seat trumping the dealer's off suit.

To cite examples specifically hand picked is not looking at it statistically of the whole population available. Anyone call pull out exceptions that are not representative of all the hands as a best strategy.



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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:21 pm

Obviously you disagree and don’t make lone calls at 8. That’s fine. We all have our ideas on how the game should be played.

One of the points I was trying to make was that some players would consider going alone on 8 rude and un-sportsmen like. Why is that?

Failed lone calls fall into 3 different categories. The ones where taking your partner along would have resulted in two-point, those where your partner would have got in the way and those where it made no difference. By only seeing your hand, where do you fall?

I contend that score should not be a factor in deciding whether to call alone or not.

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:02 am

" Obviously you disagree and don’t make lone calls at 8. "

Not true! It all depends on my hand, which seat and the situation!

So let me explain, scores all at 8 to 9 opponents ahead. Suppose you have a hand at S1 of four trump in hearts with the KS trailer. With this hand there is no way your partner at S3 can obstruct. So why go alone? With a doubleton that is a Doubleton off suit there are ways to obstruct vs assist. But obstructing could be greater than taking your partner so go alone.

Now an example from going alone at S2 and you ordered the dealer, say AH as the up card and you hold AS singleton. If S1 leads to your AS and S3 trumps the dealer may be able to over trump. The fact that you play first makes a big difference.

The situation also makes a difference such as a tournament where extra points matter.

So I conclude the hand, seat and situation should determine going alone or not.

~Irishwolf

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Dlan
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Unread post by Dlan » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:05 pm

I contend that score should not be a factor in deciding whether to call alone or not.
So I conclude the hand, seat and situation should determine going alone or not.
Yes

irishwolf
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Unread post by irishwolf » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:35 pm

The issue was when the score is you are at 8 points. I don't understand this statement if you need 3 or 4 points, please explain?

"I contend that score should not be a factor in deciding whether to call alone or not."

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