EricZalas Point System and Mathematics

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Tbolt65
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: EricZalas Point System and Mathematics

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:52 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:10 pm
Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:31 pm
MeeKer wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:56 am
Which tournaments has Eric won?
Which tournaments has Wes won?
Which tournaments has Don won?

Who has been the most successful at playing euchre?
Lol, you really think that matters? Ultimately whether my advice here is good or not rests on the case I make. Sometimes I can make a strong argument. Sometimes I can't. Not having that mythical euchre simulator and having to rely on back of the envelope math at best will often leave room for reasonable doubt. How many tournaments I've won won't resolve much. I certainly wouldn't want anyone believing anything I've said on reputation anyways.

That said if you must know, I have only played in my weekly Vegas tournament. 2019 was the first year I was eligible to win player of the year. You have to pay a whole $5 to be eligible and then youre officially part of the club and they keep track of your stats. I started playing in 2017 but I only played 1 time and finished 2nd. I played almost all of 2018 but I never bothered to officially join the club. I believe if they had kept track of my stats in 2018 I would've been player of the year and won the Las Vegas Euchre Championship. I believe I finished in First and in the top 5 often enough to get the job done. But that's just hearsay. I didn't pay the $5 so we'll never know.

True story: At the end of 2018, I paid the $5 to finally be eligible to win Player of the Year for 2019. After I gave my $5 to the cause I walked over to the table where the three best players were sitting, the same guys who have taken turns winning POY the last 7 years. I told them all to their faces that they had a great run and they should be proud of their accomplishments but now their reign of terror is over FOREVER. The true GOAT has arrived! They all laughed at me, mocked me, cackling maniacally with overconfident joy. How could the person who gets euchred by far more than anyone else in the room, pissing everyone off in the process, have a chance to win the whole F**king thing?!?

Well it's mid-November, about 6 weeks left in the year and I hold a solid but tenuous 8 point lead for Player of the Year. But it's not really tenuous at all. There's no way I'm gonna choke that lead away. I promised the three best players in the room that their time is over and I will hold to that promise. I will make them realize what they've should've known all along: The Legend is real.
For those who want to see whether I choked or not:

http://www.vegaseuchre.com/

Spoiler alert: I OWN THIS F*#%ING CITY
Grats Wes. Good job. I didn't know you were in competition for the yearly prize. I figured you win the Fall session, Instead of just the fall season, you'll now have me for all of next year. So.....ready or not. Here I come. Hopefully I won't miss any days in the coming year, rather you better hope I do. 8-) :lol:



Tbolt65
Edward



Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:22 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:47 pm
That's not as bad as losing 4 points on a euchred Loner try. A Rule they also have. As for the 1 point thing for the std to pass your deal. I don't know what the reason is for. Personally I don't like either stipulation. I do like to play euchre so I play.

Tbolt65
Edward
I can't stand the 4 pt loss rule on loners. Totally handcuffs me offensively and it messes with my head when it comes to other defensive strategies too. E.G. is it worth calling thin in Next when it's that much harder for Seat 2 to go alone? Is it worth donating at certain scores? Etc.

The STD variation pisses me off too!! Here's why. In a standard STD format where the dealer has to call something in the 2nd rd, you would correctly pass in the 2 seat if you had a euchre hand. You would be hoping to trap Seat 3 and if Seat 3 doesn't take the bait you'll hit your P, the dealer, no matter what he calls. But you can't run this play when the dealer can now pass and take a 1 pt loss. Now you have to call something for fear that your P will not.

Had this hand come up recently. My P, the dealer turns down a heart in the first round. I have this in the 2nd round:

(Card_K-D) (Card_J-D) (Card_10-D) (Card_J-C) (Card_J-S)

A monster euchre hand I would never call with in normal euchre, but I can't pass this and watch my P take a 1 point loss. So I call black to try to hit my partner, and of course my P had the other black and we get euchred. So dumb. Had another hand around a year ago where I had a stopper hand in the 2nd round in the 2 seat, not strong in any direction, an obvious passing hand, but I had to call in case my P was planning on passing for a 1 pt loss. So I call reverse next in red and we get euchred. My P had a 4 pt loner in the other red, and the 3rd Seat was gonna pass. So becuz of this stupid rule I was forced into making a 6 pt mistake.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:26 am

patiencepays wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:42 pm
What is the justification for the penalty point. Isn't it enough to have lost the deal and the advantage that goes with it. To keep this short, I'll say the point penalty to me seems like a silly tinkering of the scoring rules that also needlessly increases the strategic complexity of the game.

Does anyone know the "horses mouth" reason for this rules implimentation? Do players here at the forum like the rule? Care to comment?

Thanks, Patiencepays (but with rule #5, punishment creeps in)[/color]
I don't know who came up with this variation. All I know is it definitely makes the game more annoying, and I would argue that instead of "needlessly increasing the strategic complexity of the game", it actually dumbs it down since 2 seat now can never bag in the 2nd round.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:37 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:52 pm
Grats Wes. Good job. I didn't know you were in competition for the yearly prize. I figured you win the Fall session, Instead of just the fall season, you'll now have me for all of next year. So.....ready or not. Here I come. Hopefully I won't miss any days in the coming year, rather you better hope I do. 8-) :lol:



Tbolt65
Edward
My friend and my adversary. I know you have great passion, and I know you don't fear me--which is precisely why I fear you! But that fear will not consume me. No. It will fuel me!!!

2020 will be an epic battle. The stuff of legends.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:40 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:52 pm
Grats Wes. Good job.
BTW here's the imaginary speech I will give at my official coronation this Thursday:

First I want to point out I did not do this on my own. No one accomplishes ANYTHING on their own. Today I humbly stand before you on the shoulders of all the passers who helped make this happen. Without them none of this would be possible.

All the hard work, the endless determination, ALL the sleepless nights....Was TOTALLY worth it to accomplish the objective of usurping the troika of terror which has besieged this esteemed establishment for the last seven long years!

Today marks a new beginning. A dawn of a new age of dominance. With great humility I bask in the glory and accept the ensuing challenge of being the 2019 Las Vegas euchre champion. The only thing that can possibly be sweeter than this championship will be the next one!

patiencepays

Unread post by patiencepays » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:10 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:47 pm
That's not as bad as losing 4 points on a euchred Loner try. A Rule they also have. As for the 1 point thing for the std to pass your deal. I don't know what the reason is for. Personally I don't like either stipulation. I do like to play euchre so I play.

Tbolt65
Edward
Four points to opposition for euchring a loner is much too harsh, particularly if it in place at a tournament that pays reward for most loners. Strategically loners encouraged, but by rule, equally discouraged. Kind of like a conflict of interest. Yes. thumbs down to that rule also.

irishwolf
Posts: 1319
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Unread post by irishwolf » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:03 pm

Yes, ignorant rules that also include you have to have a trump to make trump/order. Or Canadian rule of Dealer partner has to go alone when assisting. Or even STD. Those are all dumb variants.

You should speak to Harvey Lapp about his Vegas Rules. I believe he was the author.

Irishwolf

patiencepays

Unread post by patiencepays » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:29 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:26 am
patiencepays wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:42 pm
What is the justification for the penalty point. Isn't it enough to have lost the deal and the advantage that goes with it. To keep this short, I'll say the point penalty to me seems like a silly tinkering of the scoring rules that also needlessly increases the strategic complexity of the game.

Does anyone know the "horses mouth" reason for this rules implimentation? Do players here at the forum like the rule? Care to comment?

Thanks, Patiencepays (but with rule #5, punishment creeps in)[/color]
I don't know who came up with this variation. All I know is it definitely makes the game more annoying, and I would argue that instead of "needlessly increasing the strategic complexity of the game", it actually dumbs it down since 2 seat now can never bag in the 2nd round.
Here's a thought! Remove, what I consider the unfair disadvantages of STD and passing w/pt penalty that is on the dealer each hand and evolve the game with an adaption of the trump making procedure.

Suppose this rules revision.

When determining trump, after 7 passes: 1. the dealer may elect to make trump or 2. the dealer upon declining to make trump will turn up the second card in the kitty and that suit shall be offered as trump in another round of bidding. This procedure continues, if necessary, through all 4 cards in the kitty. If trump is not made after the 4 upcards are shown. The deal is passed to the left.

Just imagine the wheels grinding at the table when new information is introduced with the newly turned up card!

Surely, If you're not a card player in a race for time, this rule change/variation would reduce the STD disadvantage the dealer faces while offering a breath of fresh air to the game.

Anybody? Is this crazy or not so crazy? Or just more annoyance?

~ Patiencepays ~

Richardb02
Posts: 748
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm

Mozel Tov Wes!
Player of the Year!

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:27 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm
Mozel Tov Wes!
Player of the Year!
Thanks Richard. Just a heads up, if Edward wins the championship a year from now I will pretend to be happy for him but inside I will be utterly devastated questioning everything I'm doing with my life.

Richardb02
Posts: 748
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Unread post by Richardb02 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:05 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:27 pm
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm
Mozel Tov Wes!
Player of the Year!
Thanks Richard. Just a heads up, if Edward wins the championship a year from now I will pretend to be happy for him but inside I will be utterly devastated questioning everything I'm doing with my life.
LOL. I wouldn’t expect it any other way! The competition will make you both better. Which one of you has more chutzpah?

Tbolt65
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:49 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:27 pm
Richardb02 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm
Mozel Tov Wes!
Player of the Year!
Thanks Richard. Just a heads up, if Edward wins the championship a year from now I will pretend to be happy for him but inside I will be utterly devastated questioning everything I'm doing with my life.
Keep at it, my young jedi in the ways of euchre. Contemplate you must. Over thinking and looking for confirmation in other numbers you must not. Your euchre salvation is within. Don't go down the path of second guessing. Be sure you must. The euchre ways is strong within you. I can feel it. Don't be lead astray.

Tbolt65
Edward

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:53 pm

Tbolt65 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:49 pm
Keep at it, my young jedi in the ways of euchre. Contemplate you must. Over thinking and looking for confirmation in other numbers you must not. Your euchre salvation is within. Don't go down the path of second guessing. Be sure you must. The euchre ways is strong within you. I can feel it. Don't be lead astray.

Tbolt65
Edward
Just no Blade Runner 2049 references where the guy thinks he's the chosen one the entire movie until he finds out he's not. I can't deal with that.

Tbolt65
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Unread post by Tbolt65 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:09 am

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:53 pm
Tbolt65 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:49 pm
Keep at it, my young jedi in the ways of euchre. Contemplate you must. Over thinking and looking for confirmation in other numbers you must not. Your euchre salvation is within. Don't go down the path of second guessing. Be sure you must. The euchre ways is strong within you. I can feel it. Don't be lead astray.

Tbolt65
Edward
Just no Blade Runner 2049 references where the guy thinks he's the chosen one the entire movie until he finds out he's not. I can't deal with that.
Believe it or not I've never even seen the original or the new sequel. Yeah I know.

Let me get all matrix on you then. "…...I can only show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it" - Morpheus "Matrix"

Tbolt65
Edward

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Unread post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:47 am

Tbolt65 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:09 am
Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:53 pm
Tbolt65 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:49 pm
Keep at it, my young jedi in the ways of euchre. Contemplate you must. Over thinking and looking for confirmation in other numbers you must not. Your euchre salvation is within. Don't go down the path of second guessing. Be sure you must. The euchre ways is strong within you. I can feel it. Don't be lead astray.

Tbolt65
Edward
Just no Blade Runner 2049 references where the guy thinks he's the chosen one the entire movie until he finds out he's not. I can't deal with that.
Believe it or not I've never even seen the original or the new sequel. Yeah I know.

Let me get all matrix on you then. "…...I can only show you the door, your the one that has to walk through it" - Morpheus "Matrix"

Tbolt65
Edward
I'm not a big fan of the original Blade Runner. I thought it was overrated, but Blade Runner 2049 was very well done. I liked it a lot. But if you ever wanna watch 2049 you have to see the original first.


Last bumped by Tbolt65 on Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:47 am.

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