Richardb02 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:02 pm
1. What would be your edge hand(s) from S2, R1?
First let's get what I consider the non-edge hands out of the way. Assume neutral score and assume my team isn't on 9 or 8. Any time I have 3 trump I'm calling unless I have a euchre hand. Any time I have Right + 1 I'm calling unless I have a euchre hand. Any time I have Left + 1 + an off ace and I only block 1 out of the 3 remaining suits in the 2nd round I'm calling unless the Right is up and I have mad respect for my partner. If I have Left + 1 + an off ace but I block all suits (I.E. I have a stopper hand) then I would pass regardless of upcard.
An edge hand that comes to mind is when we have Left + 1 + an off ace and we block 2 out of the 3 remaining suits in the 2nd round. A hand like this:
Score is 0-0. Dealer upcard is the
and we are in the 2 seat with:
We have a next call in big trouble plus we have an easy reverse next call in diamonds should the action get back to us. I would pass this hand in the first round at 0-0. But if someone advocated for always calling with Left + 1 + an off ace when they don't block all suits I would not tell them they are wrong. I think it's close. They could easily be right. Certainly with a nice lead I'm always calling with Left + 1 + an off ace when I don't block all suits including the hand example above. In that scenario might as well make sure Seat 1 never gets a chance at a 4 point loner no matter how rare.
Another edge hand that comes to mind is when we have a hand like this:
Score is 0-0, dealer upcard is the
, we are in the 2 seat with:
I think this is a call unless your partner is a strong player. I also think going alone is fine but I know most people think that's crazy, but going alone is absolutely the right play at 0-0 if you feel your team is the underdog usually due to the fact that your partner is pretty bad. When your team is the underdog you need to be in MAKE PLAYS mode every snap of the game, upping the variance, trying to win the game in as few hands as possible. Basically any time we have 2 non-bower trump + 2 aces in the 2 spot we are in an edge situation imo.
Another edge hand: Having the Right + 2 off aces.
Score is 0-0, dealer upcard is
. You're in the 2 seat with:
I'm calling this unless my partner is a strong player. The fact that we block nothing in the 2nd rd is worth noting too.
Lastly I would say any time we have 2 trump + an off ace and we block nothing in the 2nd rd and have no where to go in the 2nd round, I would call that an edge spot. A hand like this:
Score is 0-0. Dealer upcard is
, we are in the 2 seat with:
We block nothing in the 2nd, have nowhere to go in the 2nd, clubs is clearly the best we got. I'm calling this hand unless I have a strong partner, which means I'm calling most of the time becuz strong partners are rather rare.
Keep in mind once our team is at 8 or 9 points so called edge hands now become standard calls in most instances. Not having to worry about blocking our partner's loner means we should loosen up our range a bit (altho we can't screw around at scores up 9-8, 8-8, up 8-7).
Richardb02 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:02 pm
2, I only consider Partner, in S4, calling Alone if A or J is the Up Card. Do you use the Up Card as a parameter in similar situations? How?
Assuming my team has less than 8 I only think about the possibility of blocking my partner's loner when the Right is up. For example, if I have Left + 1 and nothing else I will back off and pass if my partner is a strong player but order it if not. Although if my team is down by a lot I'm not ordering up the Right unless I have 3 trump or I'm going alone myself even if I have a weak partner. Sometimes you're in a spot where you just have to hope your partner "has it", like if you're down 6-1 or something or obv down 9-6/9-7.
Another example where I'm ordering up the right with a relatively weak holding:
My team is up 7-1. The upcard is the
, I'm in the 2 seat with:
If my partner is not a strong player I'm ordering this up. Not taking the chance of him passing when we have a decent chance of scoring and I block nothing in the 2nd round. If I block my partner's loner so be it. We'll still likely be up 9-1 with 98% equity. I'm ok with that.
Richardb02 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:02 pm
3. If blocking up 8-1 is a good idea, would blocking at 8-2 be a good idea? 8-3? Where would you draw the line?
I draw the line at up 8-5. This is obviously a dicey play that will go wrong quite often. I like the idea that in the worst case scenario, we're still up 8-7 with 60% equity. I think one could make the argument that we should run this play at up 8-6. Although now when we get euchred we only have 46% equity, one of the pluses to this play is Seat 1 never gets the chance at a game winning loner in the 2nd round. I don't know. I feel good about 8-5, I'm just not sure about 8-6.
Richardb02 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:02 pm
4. Does the thought process change if the score is 9-1, 9-2, etc.?
Same thought process. When your team is at 9 with a nice lead you should be trying to close out the game as fast as possible. All "best I got, I block nothing and have nowhere to go in the 2nd round" type hands become standard calls unless you're playing in a tournament where points matter. Of course this begs the same question as above. What's the cutoff as far as making these loose defensive calls? Well I wouldn't run this play up 9-7. The penalty of getting euchred is too great. And running this play up 9-5 is mandatory since even in the worst case scenario we are still up 9-7 with 77% equity. The edge spot is when we're up 9-6. Getting euchred at that score kinda hurts cuz now you put your enemy in position to close out the game down 9-8 with the deal. I swear when you're running bad it seems like EVERY time your opponents get in that spot they indeed close out. But that said, If I'm gonna run this play up 8-5, I have to run it up 9-6 if I want to be consistent. Remember if we get euchred up 8-5 we end up at 8-7 with 60% equity, and if we get euchred up 9-6 we end up at 9-8 with 64% equity. Can't advocate one without the other. So I would run this play up 9-X when X = 6 or less. It's annoying when we get euchred up 9-6 and put our opponents in a close out position but this strategy also prevents seat 1 from ever winning the game in the 2nd round on a 4 point loner.