Seat 1 Decision

Ask questions, discuss and debate your strategies, euchre polls and more
Post Reply
Richardb02
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Seat 1 Decision

Post by Richardb02 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:09 pm

Score 6-9, them
Partner: Ave
Up: (Card_A-H)
You,Seat 1: (Card_A-C) (Card_9-S) (Card_10-S) (Card_K-H) (Card_J-D)
Your decision?



Suz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 6:06 pm

Post by Suz » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:32 pm

I would pass

irishwolf
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:49 pm

Richard, why would you order?

Richardb02
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:00 pm

Opponent has 9 points. The dynamic is different than a neutral score. I don't have a better 2nd round bid. I can see me taking 2 tricks. Since I count on my Partner for 1 trick, I have to consider ordering up.

So, my question, what is to be gained by passing?

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:07 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:00 pm
Opponent has 9 points. The dynamic is different than a neutral score. I don't have a better 2nd round bid. I can see me taking 2 tricks. Since I count on my Partner for 1 trick, I have to consider ordering up.

So, my question, what is to be gained by passing?
Your opponents have the deal. In this spot you have to have a legit hand no matter what the score is (unless you're donating which obviously doesn't apply here). If you order you're giving them a trump and a chance to create a void. That's a big advantage to overcome. Forcing it when it's their deal becuz they have 9 is suicidal in the first round. "Forcing it cuz they have 9" is mostly a 2nd round concept. In the first round you are a prisoner to the upcard. You have to have a real hand when it's their deal.

And by the way, whenever you have a perfectly viable 2nd round hand NEVER EVER order marginal in the first round from the 1 seat. If the dealer passes, you have a super easy next call with the right bower and two boss cards. You might even be able to get 3 tricks yourself.

RedDuke
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:44 am

Agree with Wes here.

If you order that into the dealer's hand, the odds of them taking 3 tricks are very high. The only thing that you have that can stop that Ace is the Left and if dealer has the right, you're SOL. This is especially true when he has final play as he would here.

Question: If you ordered up here, what would you lead with? If you lead the king, dealer's partner will just throw under you and let dealer take you with the ace. If you lead the left, if either opponent has the right, you've lost.

You're better off passing here. If the upcard does not get ordered up, then you call diamonds in the second round. That's actually a much stronger hand (you hold the right and two boss cards) than ordering up the ace to your opponents. If the score were reversed, say 9-6 in your favor, then yes, you'd want to order up. But not when you're down 6-9.

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:49 am

RedDuke wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:44 am
If the score were reversed, say 9-6 in your favor, then yes, you'd want to order up. But not when you're down 6-9.
Wait, why would we want to order this if we were up 9-6. We don't need to donate. We already have a loner blocked. Just pass, and try to set them if they call, and if they pass, call diamonds in the 2nd round. Same logic as before: Don't call marginal from seat 1, 1st round, when you have a viable escape route in the 2nd round. The right bower + two boss cards is fine next call, and an imperative one to make, since we should never pass in the 2nd round from seat 1 up 9-6, if we don't block all loners.

RedDuke
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:33 am

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:49 am
RedDuke wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:44 am
If the score were reversed, say 9-6 in your favor, then yes, you'd want to order up. But not when you're down 6-9.
Wait, why would we want to order this if we were up 9-6. We don't need to donate. We already have a loner blocked. Just pass, and try to set them if they call, and if they pass, call diamonds in the 2nd round. Same logic as before: Don't call marginal from seat 1, 1st round, when you have a viable escape route in the 2nd round. The right bower + two boss cards is fine next call, and an imperative one to make, since we should never pass in the 2nd round from seat 1 up 9-6, if we don't block all loners.
You're right, of course. I wasn't really thinking there. You do have the loner blocked (and you have march blocked, so it's a one point hand no matter what the opponents do). You shouldn't call this no matter what, really.

Richardb02
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:56 pm

Thanks. Let me review the take aways.

I missed that the Kh becomes Boss in the 2nd round. So I under-evaluated my 2nd round hand. In Seat 1 evaluating the 2nd round hand is critical.

I need to be more careful with my terms. Donating is bidding when the score is in your favor. Forcing more accurately describes bidding because Opponent has 8 or 9 points. Forcing is more of a 2nd round strategy.

Any corrections or additions? I appreciate the guidance.

RedDuke
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:09 pm

I need to be more careful with my terms. Donating is bidding when the score is in your favor. Forcing more accurately describes bidding because Opponent has 8 or 9 points. Forcing is more of a 2nd round strategy.
Correct. Forcing is where you bid to prevent the opponents from bidding. You absolutely want to do that here. If you get the opportunity to bid in the second round, bid diamonds in this case. Don't pass and give second seat the chance to bid reverse next and most likely win the game.

So basically, the advice for the scenario above is to pass as the first seat. If your opponents make hearts trump then do your best to euchre them. Call diamonds if nobody orders up hearts. Don't give them the chance to call reverse next.

Post Reply