Seat 4(Dealer) Decision

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Richardb02
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Seat 4(Dealer) Decision

Post by Richardb02 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:02 pm

Score: Neutral
Parter: Average
You: Seat 4
Up: (Card_J-H)
Your hand: (Card_9-D) (Card_10-D) (Card_Q-S) (Card_Q-H) (Card_K-H)
Everyone passes around to you. Your decision?



Suz
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 6:06 pm

Post by Suz » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:33 pm

I would call hearts

irishwolf
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Post by irishwolf » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:50 pm

why would you consider passing?

Richardb02
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:05 pm

There is a 3rd option. I suggest that a systematic and quantitative approach, would naturally lead you to the 3rd option. What do you suggest as the best decision?

Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:11 pm

Richardb02 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:05 pm
There is a 3rd option. I suggest that a systematic and quantitative approach, would naturally lead you to the 3rd option. What do you suggest as the best decision?
You're overthinking this Richard. At a neutral score there is only one option. Call hearts. If down 9-6 then yes go alone. Hail mary time.

RedDuke
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:50 am

Pick up the right, discard the queen of spades. That's really the only decision. As Wes says, you could try this as a loner if you need the points. It's not really a strong loner, but if your opponents are holding mostly black cards, it could work.

Richardb02
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by Richardb02 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:49 pm

I evaluated my hand as a marginal Loner. BTW, I appreciate all y’all guidance on these marginal hands. I add an evaluation of being euchred if I go alone. I don’t mind losing 10-15% of the time when going alone. I felt that I had an 85% chance of making 1. So I went alone.

The hand went better than I envisioned. I trumped the 1st trick with Qh, drew trump with Jh (Jd fell, Ah in the wild), the Td walked, Kh walked, 9d walked. 4 points! Lucky of course but it worked. If Td fell, I still expected a good shot with the Kh winning and then the 9d (next) taking the last trick. I’ve had success with this approach but getting euchre 15% of the isn’t for the faint of heart

The big X factor is the level of competition. Experienced players are probably quoting experiences based on a higher level of opponents. So I understand why picking up is the favored recommendation. My approach may be working because of weak competition. That’s why I ask these questions.

I also want to ask about the psyche of being euchred. Euchre is a game of chance. I sense everyone agrees we must take a chance to maximize winning. Is there a chance we avoid being euchred, even if our best analysis suggests that we would gain net points by bidding more aggressively?

RedDuke
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:22 am

Post by RedDuke » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:05 am

I also want to ask about the psyche of being euchred. Euchre is a game of chance. I sense everyone agrees we must take a chance to maximize winning. Is there a chance we avoid being euchred, even if our best analysis suggests that we would gain net points by bidding more aggressively?
A lot of people do this. I've actually been euchred when I call and I'm holding four trump. I've had partners actually get very angry with me when this happens, even though mathematically the odds that you're going to get euchred if you're holding 4 (one of which is the right) is incredibly low.

There are times when the cards are just going to be against you. I once played a game against a guy that went alone holding

(Card_K-D) (Card_Q-D) (Card_10-D) (Card_9-D) (Card_A-C)

He got euchred because I was holding both red jacks and the ace of diamonds. Admittedly, while that hand was fairly unlikely to take all five tricks, the only way it's going to be euchred is if you have one opponent holding all three of the remaining trumps. That's a very low probability scenario. So really, his call was the correct one, but his partner started screaming and cussing him out over it.

In a lot of ways, I'd say that your partner's reaction to getting euchred is more likely to destroy your psyche than the euchre itself. If you see that your partner is getting angry, you might be less inclined to call on hands that could otherwise make a point if you aren't holding a sure thing. That could cost you the game.

If your call is a good one, just maintain your mental fortitude. If you've got a partner that has a clue what they're doing, they'll see the cards that you play and realize that it was a good call even if you get euchred.

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Dlan
Site Admin
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Post by Dlan » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:54 am

If your call is a good one, just maintain your mental fortitude. If you've got a partner that has a clue what they're doing, they'll see the cards that you play and realize that it was a good call even if you get euchred.
Being a good partner requires a certain amount of discipline. All too often, I see one partner judging the other by what cards are in their hand. When one is euchred, the problem tends to be the fact that the hands either didn’t match up or weren’t played according to the other’s hand. Had your partner known you held the ace of hearts (clubs, spades or whatever) he surely would have led that. Or would have passed if they knew you had a lone, or…..

RedDuke
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Post by RedDuke » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:45 am

Dlan wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:54 am
If your call is a good one, just maintain your mental fortitude. If you've got a partner that has a clue what they're doing, they'll see the cards that you play and realize that it was a good call even if you get euchred.
Being a good partner requires a certain amount of discipline. All too often, I see one partner judging the other by what cards are in their hand. When one is euchred, the problem tends to be the fact that the hands either didn’t match up or weren’t played according to the other’s hand. Had your partner known you held the ace of hearts (clubs, spades or whatever) he surely would have led that. Or would have passed if they knew you had a lone, or…..
You also have to learn to trust your partner sometimes. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten euchred because my partner trumped a trick that I would have otherwise taken, causing my ace to be wasted.

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