Weekly games 5-18 trump partners ace

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Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Weekly games 5-18 trump partners ace

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Sun May 24, 2020 5:48 pm

Richard, I just wanted to point out that I trumped your Ace on purpose in this spot:

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

I knew from your line that you were weak and didn't have the Right. When you led the Ace of spades, I trumped it with my Left for two reasons. If S1 has the Right, then my trump will secure us our point as it prevents S3 from trumping low and getting the euchre. If S3 has the Right, then my trump will force it out and hopefully make your last trump boss once again securing our point. All of this was moot becuz S3 was not void in spades, but still necessary as this is the line that maximizes our chances of getting the point. There are many spots where it is correct to trump a partner's ace, but this is probably the rarest spot.



Wes (aka the legend)
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by Wes (aka the legend) » Tue May 26, 2020 9:17 pm

Here's another hand that came up recently where I trumped my partner's ace. Me and Edward were playing on the Karman game's app. The score is 9-9 on my deal. the upcard was the (Card_A-C) and that was the only trump I had. Edward ordered me up from the 2 seat.

S1 led the Ace of hearts and Edward trumped in with the (Card_J-S) for the trick.

Then Edward led the (Card_A-D)

I had a void in diamonds and immediately trumped it with the (Card_A-C)

When Edward trumped in with the JS I knew he called with both bowers and no other trump. When he led the AD this further confirmed my read as Edward is trying to make sure that his JC and my AC don't fall on the same lead those times the AC is the only trump I have. Knowing Edward had the other bower I trumped his AD with my AC to secure our point and the win. If I don't trump Edward's ace we could still lose, but once I trump it it's game over. This is an easy hand reading example that anyone can instantly get but I swear in the heat of battle almost no one trumps their partner's ace in that spot becuz their mind is clouded by that commandment!

Richardb02
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Richardb02 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:27 pm

Wes (aka the legend) wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:48 pm
Richard, I just wanted to point out that I trumped your Ace on purpose in this spot:

https://worldofcardgames.com/#!replayer ... %3A1%7D%5D

I knew from your line that you were weak and didn't have the Right. When you led the Ace of spades, I trumped it with my Left for two reasons. If S1 has the Right, then my trump will secure us our point as it prevents S3 from trumping low and getting the euchre. If S3 has the Right, then my trump will force it out and hopefully make your last trump boss once again securing our point. All of this was moot becuz S3 was not void in spades, but still necessary as this is the line that maximizes our chances of getting the point. There are many spots where it is correct to trump a partner's ace, but this is probably the rarest spot.
I finally made the time to review this hand properly. When I saw you play the Js, I thought nothing of it. My P was Wes. I have great confidence in your skills. I have begun to train my brain to play on the cards played and not on woulda, coulda, shoulda thoughts.

When we took our point, with roughly a 15% chance of being euchred, I put the hand completely out of my mind. That is a strength and a weakness of how I play. My style allows me to focus on the next hand, which eliminates possible errors while playing woulda, coulda, shoulda thoughts through my head. My approach is weak because I don’t see these nuances/ tactics of playing the cards.

My strategy is to replay the game when I have time to properly review the hands. That is easy on WoCG games because I can save hands that are of interest to me. Plus Wes, Dlan and others post hands that are interesting.

Let’s see if you agree with my simplified summary.
1. The generality is still, do not trump P’s ace. If someone is in the Beginner to Average level, go with the generality. Using my Pareto Principle explanation, the guideline will be best about 80% of the time. So go with the generality unless you and your competition, is in the top 20% of players.
2. Make sure that you have a good reason to trump P’s ace. Wes’ reason was to lock down the 3rd trick. That would limit the strategy to play on the 3rd or 4th round of play. Wes’ play also was a Left on an Ace and an Ace of trump on an off-suit Ace. That is 5 to 6 ranks higher than the off-suit Ace. That is significantly stronger and of paramount importance when securing the 3rd trick.
3. The logic, I see, is that strong players order thinly. They count on P for 1 trick. Wes made sure that he took his trick and secured a point (and avoided any possibility of being euchred). Strong players, like Wes, don’t play as haphazardly as it appears. There is usually a reason if you look for the reason and it may not be obvious. I confess that I missed the reason until I played the hands 5 or 6 times. Most players aren’t interested in Euchre that intensely. If you don’t enjoy that level of learning and concentration, play at a level that you enjoy! Enjoying the game should be the ultimate decision-maker.
4. So feel free to play the “don’t trump P’s Ace,” if that is your comfort level. In exchange please don’t consider the generalities as sacrosanct. They are not the best guidance 100% of the time, no matter how often a would be “expert” throws them around. Also, based on my learning curve from beginner 2 1/2 years ago to competing with the best here on OE (Ohio Euchre), there were many posts that I chose to flat out read and leave alone. Euchre and life is a journey. Enjoy the journey. Ask questions on the forum when you are ready or read through the lessons here on OE. Post hands when you want guidance. Enjoy OE at your level.

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